LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I am still not religious and Muslim. The fact you think it might not apply to Muslims. Could apply to some Jewish people is your opinion. In general I'm asking you to accept that the Uighurs may just be cultural Muslims like me.
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Uighur treatment in China
- Thread starter spurspinter1
- Start date
I am still not religious and Muslim. The fact you think it might not apply to Muslims. Could apply to some Jewish people is your opinion. In general I'm asking you to accept that the Uighurs may just be cultural Muslims like me.
Thats gonads mate. You can be muslim as part of your cultural identity without being religious.
And Jewish and Israeli is not interchangeable at all, thats a massive disservice to the diversity of jewish culture and thought that has been around longer than stone henge.
I am also not religious, so much so I type this with a glass of Jura with ice and a cigar in my hand, but part of my cultural identity is that I'm muslim.
Yet I've posted the meaning of the word Muslim and there's no mention whatsoever of whatever a "cultural Muslim" is.
That would be like describing me as a Catholic simply because I have Scottish heritage - it would be entirely false.
No mate... identify is not defined by one singular part, that is an oversimplification bordering on stupid. And I would hate to call you that
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
The reason it's so hard to accept that we can be part of a faith group as an identity rather than a theological union is that it then means the criticism of such groups can start to become racial. It's an interesting area and I've seen people struggle with it in the past.
Policing how people feel about their identity isn't the one though.
Policing how people feel about their identity isn't the one though.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Like policing people's sexuality because of religion?
Yeah thats fudged up as well. Completely and utterly wrong and contemptible.
So let's not do either.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
I'd say it's more that the religious groups encourage that blurring of lines.
It's very easy for those of us capable of logical thought to ridicule Muslims as followers of some silly fairy stories characterised by their abhorrent treatment of others. If Muslims can blur those lines so that it starts to mean brown people, then criticism of Islam becomes racist - a level of protection they will need as the spread of information becomes easier over generations.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
This is spot on.
My point the other day was not to ridicule all Muslims or classify all Muslims but thats is how it was twisted. The point was in 9 countries around the world law that is set under Sharia law makes being homosexual illegal, the irony by nature of the countries religious make up, that also oppresses Muslims. Now I was not in anyway using this idea to paint the whole of the islamic world as homophobic maniacs, but it points to a fact that there is work to be done there, its a fact and one that many charitable non right wing organisations go to great lengths to highlight. Even George Clooney was pushing hard for change and managed to get it, did not make it right wing even though it was pointing out some pretty horrific and archaic interpretation of Islamic law making
Its a point where as white English we have to face up to the crimes of the past in the same way as these ideas should be challenged in 2020
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LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I've never done so. There are as many nutjobs in all faiths when it comes to treatment of homosexuality. It isn't a Muslim only issue.
Yes exactly. Which is why it's an issue for you.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Your views are commendable however because you do not does not mean it does not happen, it does and does so in official capacity
I would agree with your point about nut jobs but in this context you would be talking about pockets of nut jobs where I am referring to entire regimes where the interpretation of religion is written into the countries law making.
Not only that some of the punishments for being gay for example carry extreme punishments, not that its enforced but in Nigeria its still punishable by death, thats not because some of the people are but jobs.
It might be that 9 or 10 countries wrongly interpretations what is written into religion but it cant be denied and cant be ignored as a problem. Its a huge human rights issue which is on a large scale, I cant be bothered to add up how many humans are governed in those countries but I would imagine its in the hundred of millions who are treated differently because of their potential to be be different or hold a different religious idea to that of the state. In that its no different to whats going on in China, and thats not excusing it but there is a segway because those in these countries are muslims also.
And I stick to homosexuality as a point but could easily point to treatment of women or blasphemy which is still ongoing
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It's why it should be an issue for everyone.
Nobody should be able to hide behind their evil and bigotry behind accusations of racism.
Wilheldiva
Kevin Scott
may or may not be a muslim only issue, but that doesnt hide the fact that it certainly is a muslim a issue. and one of many human rights issues plaguing islam.
outside of the immediate potential human tragedy taking place in china atm, i hope muslims globally can recongise that there is a level of hypocrisy when they claim that uighur muslims are suffering human rights abuses in china right now. there needs to be an understanding on this front for progress to be made
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
I dont think they should be categorize any differently
All oppression is terrible
All oppression of Muslims is terrible be that by the Chinese or their own, its just a different side to a same cause.
Regardless of the accusations of me highlighting it being right wing which I dont care, I think its far more embarrassing to almost paint a picture that an entire countries regime is isolated.
It goes back to what @scaramanga touches on, we can sit on here and argue about the racism that may or may not be institutional in the UK and US police force however you can not highlight oppression which is written into actual law because it asks hard questions of what people may or may not believe. I have no issues of asking the tough questions TBH and if worrying about female and homosexual Muslims makes me right wing then so be it.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
So you guys have never heard of Christian African countries that oppress gay people. Fine. Its just Muslims.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Still find it astounding how focused you are on the ills of one faiths followers and able to disregard the ills of followers from all other faith. The machine really has done a job to ensure Muslims are disliked regardless of what they do. It is deeply sad for me.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Of course but there is a distinct difference between pockets of religious hardliners given people a hard time and homosexuality being illegal by law because of religion. The law is there to protect not to oppress. Many African countries use secular law but also islamic law in order to police harder, especially in Nigeria and Western Africa.
Is there not a rapper in Kano who was at risk of execution by the state because of blasphemy, I mean these things cant big ignored when countries are running their law like this because no person is higher than Prophet Mohammed (in their words in this case).
You talk like people are ok with other bad things because they highlight these things, if it makes you feel better I can list every other oppression in the world that upsets me if it makes you feel better and that we are being more balanced for your feelings?
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