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Uighur treatment in China

Diamond Lights said:
So to summarise this thead:

Islam is bad because it doesn't like gays or women but other religions that also do not like gays or women aren't as bad because they're not as bad as Islam.
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I think the issue is Islamic countries pass laws that sentence gays to prison or in some cases death. The church of England for example just dont want two blokes getting married in one of their chapels.

Both wrong but im sure as an intelligent chap that the are levels of wrong and perhaps the first place to start is the most serious wrongdoing where the people homesexuals in this case are fearful for their lives.

Unless you have an ulterior motive for always trying to see the opposite to the obvious?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think the issue is Islamic countries pass laws that sentence gays to prison or in some cases death. The church of England for example just dont want two blokes getting married in one of their chapels.

Both wrong but im sure as an intelligent chap that the are levels of wrong and perhaps the first place to start is the most serious wrongdoing where the people homesexuals in this case are fearful for their lives.

Unless you have an ulterior motive for always trying to see the opposite to the obvious?
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Thing is though one of the absolute Heros of the second world war. One who was actually crucial to our victory. Was chemically castrated for being gay.

And yes things have moved on... but the truth is most muslim countries are far less developed than their western counterparts... and no this is not to do with Islam as there was a time in not too distant history when the very opposite was true. And in terms of inclusion as well as other forms of development.

My extremely generalised take on things is that nations like Saudi but others like China that do not adhere to a minimum of human rights should be shunned and not traded with until they get their house in order. Problem is that there is far to much money involved for that to happen. Infact the west often ends up proping up regimes that are easily malleable... because money innit.
 
DTA said:
Thing is though one of the absolute Heros of the second world war. One who was actually crucial to our victory. Was chemically castrated for being gay.

And yes things have moved on... but the truth is most muslim countries are far less developed than their western counterparts... and no this is not to do with Islam as there was a time in not too distant history when the very opposite was true. And in terms of inclusion as well as other forms of development.

My extremely generalised take on things is that nations like Saudi but others like China that do not adhere to a minimum of human rights should be shunned and not traded with until they get their house in order. Problem is that there is far to much money involved for that to happen. Infact the west often ends up proping up regimes that are easily malleable... because money innit.
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Totally agree about trading or rather not with these countries. People laughed at me a few years ago on here when i said i always buy fair trade bananas but it is shopping ethically that will change things.

If you ever get the chance to go to bletchley the is an excellent exhibit on turing. If that was not your point and your into castration then i know a domantrix who does similar sorts of procedures. Not my cup of tea that mind.
 
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DTA said:
And yes things have moved on... but the truth is most muslim countries are far less developed than their western counterparts... and no this is not to do with Islam as there was a time in not too distant history when the very opposite was true. And in terms of inclusion as well as other forms of development.
.
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I think there are two factors.

Most if not all these countries do not run democratic structures so the easiest way to make sure no one questions the hierarchical decision makers is to rule with strict religious notions. Then its a clear case of dont blame us, its GHod will pretty helpful with laws punishable by death such as blasphemy or treason.

There is a flipside and I will post the brilliant university paper when I changed devices about how in the Middle East there is huge level of right wing level extremism that harks back to more traditional days. Starting in Egypt when they have Nasser who was one of the first socialist leftist modern ruler who was then given an extremely hard time by the Muslim Brotherhood because those hard right traditionalists wanted things more traditional. Iran wanted the same, many states across the Middle East do.

So religious oppression or leaders using religion as a tool to rule 100% exists. Thats not to say that all of Islam is bad, again I have to keep saying that to make it clear, but there are hugely oppressive monstrosities taking place under the banner of Islam which affects multiple countries and hundreds of millions of people.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I think there are two factors.

Most if not all these countries do not run democratic structures so the easiest way to make sure no one questions the hierarchical decision makers is to rule with strict religious notions. Then its a clear case of dont blame us, its GHod will pretty helpful with laws punishable by death such as blasphemy or treason.

There is a flipside and I will post the brilliant university paper when I changed devices about how in the Middle East there is huge level of right wing level extremism that harks back to more traditional days. Starting in Egypt when they have Nasser who was one of the first socialist leftist modern ruler who was then given an extremely hard time by the Muslim Brotherhood because those hard right traditionalists wanted things more traditional. Iran wanted the same, many states across the Middle East do.

So religious oppression or leaders using religion as a tool to rule 400% exists. Thats not to say that all of Islam is bad, again I have to keep saying that to make it clear, but there are hugely oppressive monstrosities taking place under the banner of Islam which affects multiple countries and hundreds of millions of people.
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That's something we should all bare in mind with all these organisations, it only takes a few evil people in any group to give the rest a bad name.
Let's not judge everyone on the extremists, every group has their bad apples, not all Muslims are terrorist, not all Catholics pedos, etc. We as a society seem to have lost all sense of nuance of identities.
 
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glasgowspur said:
That's something we should all bare in mind with all these organisations, it only takes a few evil people in any group to give the rest a bad name.
Let's not judge everyone on the extremists, every group has their bad apples, not all Muslims are terrorist, not all Catholics pedos, etc. We as a society seem to have lost all sense of nuance of identities.
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Of course I've said that clearly
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Totally agree about trading or rather not with these countries. People laughed at me a few years ago on here when i said i always buy fair trade bananas but it is shopping ethically that will change things.

If you ever get the chance to go to bletchley the is an excellent exhibit on turing. If that was not your point and your into castration then i know a domantrix who does similar sorts of procedures. Not my cup of tea that mind.
Click to expand...

If ever I'm close to Bletchley I will check it out. Turing was a hero, but in general I just like interesting exhibitions as well.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Of course I've said that clearly
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Yes, not aimed at you grays, just an observation in general.

When discussions get a little hot and people become frustrated it's easy to fall into the trap of saying and even reading the wrong thing.
Doesn't take much from there to escalate into a wide spread slanging match.
 
glasgowspur said:
Yes, not aimed at you grays, just an observation in general.

When discussions get a little hot and people become frustrated it's easy to fall into the trap of saying and even reading the wrong thing.
Doesn't take much from there to escalate into a wide spread slanging match.
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Oh indeed

I think there are a few thread on here that are getting a little like that now.
 
DTA said:
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-02...UO585ljizdMKacgLmr9tttOlivNlPDYV1VxH-7Sg0uYXo
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It's mad that there's someone in charge of a budget for sterilising the Uighur population, who probably thinks what they're doing is just and righteous and sleeps well at night.

Interesting point was raised about "is there a thread about the myanmar situation?", I presume it was tongue in cheek but in response, I haven't seen one but if it is something you feel strongly about then you're well within your rights to create one.

It comes down to just how many atrocities are going on out there right now, and if people have a tolerance level for being informed about it.
 
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