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Tottenham vs The Scum

Raziel said:
Come on mate, this argument isn't worth happening

- Arsenal has "almost" had a Leeds-esque fall (without the financial implosion) from the top level of the game, and the most critical thing is they still aren't trying to fix it.
- their "success" post Wenger was achieved by giving up on everything else and focusing on domestic cups (and even, pretty much required the luck of getting Lampard to fudge up and gift them a final), which hasn't worked out for them, their fall continues.

In Levy's time, Arsenal has gone from a team challenging for and winning most trophies, to a side relevant in name only. And the issues remains the same (and people bitch about Levy's "ambition"?)

Spurs have closed every gap on the Scum, finishing spots, stadium, squad, revenue, yes trophies remain but it will come sooner for us than them. And while we have made mistakes, we are trying to fix them (Paratici & some of the buys this season).

A FA Cup win or two doesn't change the fact that we have done better than them in last decade.
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All true but we really should have had some silverware with two FA Cups at the very minimum. Things are certainly looking better moving forward for us, cannot deny that. And for all of Levys misgivings I'd chose him over kronke all day long.
 
Daydreamer said:
Arsenal Fan here. I just wanted to echo Saka’s words by saying how much respect I had for the reception he received yesterday - a touch of class.
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Welcome to the board. What are your expectations for the season? Genuine question, is Arteta showing something in the style of play that warrants the faith shown in him so far? Or did the FA cup win paper over the longer term cracks?
 
Daydreamer said:
Arsenal Fan here. I just wanted to echo Saka’s words by saying how much respect I had for the reception he received yesterday - a touch of class.
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Fair play for coming on here to post that.

On a separate note, I think this shows that the message is slowly getting through. I don’t believe that 5-10 years ago that would have happened. The BLM and Kick Out Racism messages are getting through. Yes the authorities could be much tougher at times on racism but that won’t change attitudes, it’ll just give the perpetrators the punishment they deserve. It’s about changing people’s attitudes and that’s a very, very slow and difficult thing to do. But when you have Spurs fans applauding an Arsenal player, you have proof that we are getting there.
 
Raziel said:
Come on mate, this argument isn't worth happening

- Arsenal has "almost" had a Leeds-esque fall (without the financial implosion) from the top level of the game, and the most critical thing is they still aren't trying to fix it.
- their "success" post Wenger was achieved by giving up on everything else and focusing on domestic cups (and even, pretty much required the luck of getting Lampard to fudge up and gift them a final), which hasn't worked out for them, their fall continues.

In Levy's time, Arsenal has gone from a team challenging for and winning most trophies, to a side relevant in name only. And the issues remains the same (and people bitch about Levy's "ambition"?)

Spurs have closed every gap on the Scum, finishing spots, stadium, squad, revenue, yes trophies remain but it will come sooner for us than them. And while we have made mistakes, we are trying to fix them (Paratici & some of the buys this season).

A FA Cup win or two doesn't change the fact that we have done better than them in last decade.
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We have done better than them in the league (which I hold as the highest priority). They have done better in winning actual competitions.

I would rather the league position but only when it meant something ie. CL. Finishing 6th and them 7th with a point in-between is much of a muchness.
 
Bishop said:
We have done better than them in the league (which I hold as the highest priority). They have done better in winning actual competitions.

I would rather the league position but only when it meant something ie. CL. Finishing 6th and them 7th with a point in-between is much of a muchness.
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I was going to post something similar. You don’t fluke CL and for the growth of the club the rewards are higher than domestic cups. Even when Kane talks about trophies he also mentioned playing in CL games, which probably have a wage related bonus attached too.

it’s why it was so annoying that we still didn’t put together a decent Europa run with a cup winning specialist at the helm, you get a cup and CL even if you haven’t had a great season.

Rival league bragging rights and qualifying for the euro conference when you are both mid table is like two bald men fighting over a comb! But on the plus side I don’t miss those annual St Totteringham’s day texts I used to get from people I hadn’t heard from since the year before.
 
I thought it was a class act yesterday re Saka, and I'm really glad it happened.

Yes, we hate Arsenal as a club. We hate their players because they play for Arsenal. We never want them to do anything but fail at football.

What we don't do is hate any of their players for their race, religion or sexuality. Those issues transcend football, and I'm delighted. I genuinely think Saka was made up about that reaction.
 
MKSpur said:
I was going to post something similar. You don’t fluke CL and for the growth of the club the rewards are higher than domestic cups. Even when Kane talks about trophies he also mentioned playing in CL games, which probably have a wage related bonus attached too.

it’s why it was so annoying that we still didn’t put together a decent Europa run with a cup winning specialist at the helm, you get a cup and CL even if you haven’t had a great season.

Rival league bragging rights and qualifying for the euro conference when you are both mid table is like two bald men fighting over a comb! But on the plus side I don’t miss those annual St Totteringham’s day texts I used to get from people I hadn’t heard from since the year before.
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You are 100% right and I'd have happily taken a pot over finishing ahead of them last season.

But...on the last day of the season when they were winning, we were losing 2-1 and it looked like they'd finish above us, I was absolutely gutted. That sick feeling in your stomach that's a mix of frustration, anger and "I can't believe we've gone and done it again... how do we find new and inventive ways to humiliate ourselves."

Practically, us finishing 7th and them 8th meant next to nothing (Europa Conference League... yay). In reality, at that moment, it meant fudging everything.
 
Raziel said:
Come on mate, this argument isn't worth happening

- Arsenal has "almost" had a Leeds-esque fall (without the financial implosion) from the top level of the game, and the most critical thing is they still aren't trying to fix it.
- their "success" post Wenger was achieved by giving up on everything else and focusing on domestic cups (and even, pretty much required the luck of getting Lampard to fudge up and gift them a final), which hasn't worked out for them, their fall continues.

In Levy's time, Arsenal has gone from a team challenging for and winning most trophies, to a side relevant in name only. And the issues remains the same (and people bitch about Levy's "ambition"?)

Spurs have closed every gap on the Scum, finishing spots, stadium, squad, revenue, yes trophies remain but it will come sooner for us than them. And while we have made mistakes, we are trying to fix them (Paratici & some of the buys this season).

A FA Cup win or two doesn't change the fact that we have done better than them in last decade.
Click to expand...

I think we would all agree we have been on an upward curve the last 15 years or so (the last 3-4 years aside) whereas they have fallen quite spectacularly from where they were around 2004. I don’t think fixation is the word I would use when it comes to our hunger from trophies. They are not the be all and end all, but I do think successful teams have to back up success with trophies. Not taking anything away from our success but we need trophies too. The big clubs are successful domestically in their league campaigns AND win things also. I’d say there is a somewhat dismissive attitude towards trophies by some, coincidentally at a period where we don’t win many :D. Our identity for 50 years was that we were a cup team. I.e. a team that didn’t really challenge for titles, but were very adept at winning cups. I think some of that identity has been lost. That is also part of the game as attitudes towards cup competitions has changed and people are so obsessed with the premier league and the champions league. Whilst I believe it’s simplistic and a little harsh to put us down for not winning things, I do also feel we are in the position where we can and should be able to challenge for top 4/PL titles AND also win trophies. If we want to take the next step that is what we need to do IMO.
 
markysimmo said:
Was a nice moment, can't post on here what some utter bell end said a few rows behind me though
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Similar to what the bunch sitting behind me were shouting, I expect!

'anyone clapping him is a two bob guardian reading nonce c*nt' ....etc etc etc.

I get that its arsenal but it was a game where lots of people had brought kids along as it was easy to get tickets. A bit much to be honest.
 
SouthStand322 said:
Similar to what the bunch sitting behind me were shouting, I expect!

'anyone clapping him is a two bob guardian reading nonce c*nt' ....etc etc etc.

I get that its arsenal but it was a game where lots of people had brought kids along as it was easy to get tickets. A bit much to be honest.
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Same guys just behind me
They were a bunch of absolute helmets
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think we would all agree we have been on an upward curve the last 15 years or so (the last 3-4 years aside) whereas they have fallen quite spectacularly from where they were around 2004. I don’t think fixation is the word I would use when it comes to our hunger from trophies. They are not the be all and end all, but I do think successful teams have to back up success with trophies. Not taking anything away from our success but we need trophies too. The big clubs are successful domestically in their league campaigns AND win things also. I’d say there is a somewhat dismissive attitude towards trophies by some, coincidentally at a period where we don’t win many :D. Our identity for 50 years was that we were a cup team. I.e. a team that didn’t really challenge for titles, but were very adept at winning cups. I think some of that identity has been lost. That is also part of the game as attitudes towards cup competitions has changed and people are so obsessed with the premier league and the champions league. Whilst I believe it’s simplistic and a little harsh to put us down for not winning things, I do also feel we are in the position where we can and should be able to challenge for top 4/PL titles AND also win trophies. If we want to take the next step that is what we need to do IMO.
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We absolutely need trophies, in the end, it will be how we are measured (but we aren't at the end of the journey yet).

I'm not (can only speak to me) dismissive of trophies (and I know this conversation has been done to death), but there have been mitigating factors
- Our progress is every other way (infrastructure, squad, revenue, brand and most importantly gap to rivals in those items) has been largely upwards for a long time now
- While we have failed to put trophies on the table, we have made chances, Pl run, Domestic Cups, CL final, something like 21 QF's, SF's & Finals (our conversion rate is brick)

the FA & UEFA have fudged up and created this top 4 -> CL -> money -> top 4 -> CL circle that has deprioritized domestic cups

The next 3-5 years will be where we need to make this long game count, if as it looks a lot of clubs are going to struggle post Covid, if we have walked out ok financially (as it seems) and the stadium will kick in, we have to make it count.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
He came in peace, no need to upset him mate.
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This legit made me laugh out loud.

MKSpur said:
Welcome to the board. What are your expectations for the season? Genuine question, is Arteta showing something in the style of play that warrants the faith shown in him so far? Or did the FA cup win paper over the longer term cracks?
Click to expand...
I don't think the FA Cup win papered over cracks. I think it demonstrated a potential path forward that we intentionally didn't take.

It's easy to forget that we beat Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project to lift that cup. We showed a tactical flexibility and counter-attacking threat that hadn't been seen since early the Wenger years when we were deadly on the break. Unfortunately we ditched that and now play almost exclusively 4231 with:
  • Our tall, commanding, ball-playing, Copa America-winning Goalie keeping clean sheets for Aston Villa
  • Our backup LCB too slow to play in our high-pressing, high-line system
  • Our best goal scorer shoe-horned in on the left chasing opposition fullbacks for most of our games
  • Our record signing exiled to the right touchline when he excels as an inside forward with an overlapping fullback
It feels like we're obsessed with 'controlling' games... but we don't have the silky ballers or pacey defenders we used to have. So the actual end result is toothless passing in the final third and a defence that is vulnerable to simple balls over the top (as you demonstrated in the match).

Also, Arteta seems like a pretty terrible man-manager.

On the upside, he seems like a decent coach and I'm pleased with our recent signings. But (as I'm sure you can appreciate) when you're competing against virtually limitless financial resources, it is an uphill battle.
 
And as far as the trophies discussion goes, I think this is dependant on your recent history. We've won four FA Cups in the last decade. I personally wouldn't swap that for your more impressive league campaigns. However, that is primarily because we'd already built a platform for future success with a couple decades of top four finishes.

CL qualification is a prerequisite for the highest highs (the two biggest trophies). But more importantly, is raises a clubs minimum level. We''ve still been able to attract high quality players during a pretty rough period because of our those (now historic) CL qualifications. Both in terms of reputation and revenue-generation.

If you offered me either top four or an FA Cup for next season, I'd take top four. But if you made that same offer in 2013 during our trophy drought, I would have taken the FA Cup. Every. Single. Time.
 
Daydreamer said:
This legit made me laugh out loud.


I don't think the FA Cup win papered over cracks. I think it demonstrated a potential path forward that we intentionally didn't take.

It's easy to forget that we beat Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project to lift that cup. We showed a tactical flexibility and counter-attacking threat that hadn't been seen since early the Wenger years when we were deadly on the break. Unfortunately we ditched that and now play almost exclusively 4231 with:
  • Our tall, commanding, ball-playing, Copa America-winning Goalie keeping clean sheets for Aston Villa
  • Our backup LCB too slow to play in our high-pressing, high-line system
  • Our best goal scorer shoe-horned in on the left chasing opposition fullbacks for most of our games
  • Our record signing exiled to the right touchline when he excels as an inside forward with an overlapping fullback
It feels like we're obsessed with 'controlling' games... but we don't have the silky ballers or pacey defenders we used to have. So the actual end result is toothless passing in the final third and a defence that is vulnerable to simple balls over the top (as you demonstrated in the match).

Also, Arteta seems like a pretty terrible man-manager.

On the upside, he seems like a decent coach and I'm pleased with our recent signings. But (as I'm sure you can appreciate) when you're competing against virtually limitless financial resources, it is an uphill battle.
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I saw early signs of Poch
Now I see latter signs of Poch
It was a quick turnaround
What I do like is how he has binned off players that don’t suits him/the club….
But it’s hard to see who is in charge still at arsenal IMO
The investment in young English players seems a change of tact
 
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