Tottenham vs The Scum

[SpurMeUp]

An easy watch and mostly true https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/charlie_wilsons_war


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[greatwhitenorf]

It's a mess in Afghan. But the brutal nature of the Taliban and the Northern Alliance and the numerous warlords is part and party of a culture created by endless war from hungry super powers. They are not nice and the future won't be nice. Some introspection is needed by the architects of their plight.

Learned all about this unconquerable part of the world reading the first Flashman novel. Sure, it's a comedy but it paints a grim picture for any nation seeking to impose its will on this nation and its people. Not much has changed since - other than the reporting being far less amusing.

Can we return to football now?

 

[thfcsteff]

So even more meddling?

I would not call it 'meddling', I'd call it showing some honor and accord to the debt we owe this country, specifically its people, many of whom were kids the first time we used the country.

 

[DTA]

Building on Steffs post. The Taliban are directly related to western intervention. Afghanistan now, can be traced back to the US funding the mujahideen to fight the Soviets.

The US trained and armed the Afghan insurgency who after billions and a few years defeated the Soviet Union. From then onwards the country has been in various states of instability and war. People who used to know how to farm the land have spent decades fighting and only know how to load a Kalashnikov or arrange an ambush. They have exceptional knowledge of guerrilla warfare which stems from defeating the Soviet Union with the US’ money and weapons. The same knowledge and weapons was then used by the Taliban and ironically was used to fight the US army.

Similar occurred in Libya, Iraq and Syria. It is the most tragic pattern of western intervention over the last 50 years where hundreds of thousands of innocent people have lost their lives and been subjected to lawless tyrannical violence. To the western audiences watching the news it’s all bearded Muslims causing the problems. To those that understand most of the problems are western in origin; with the Christian Right in America particularly involved in ‘the good fight’ against the commies. The film Charlie Wilson’s War touches on some of this for anyone interested.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

This is a great post. Another point is that the seeds of this was actually planted further back. The division of the Ottoman empire along lines that bore no thought to the cultural, tribal, religious rivalry of the people living there.

They made nations arbitrarily to suit colonialists goals without knowledge of the people they were grouping together in these "countries". The same thing happened in Africa, and has also led to tragedies.

 

[thfcsteff]

This is a great post. Another point is that the seeds of this was actually planted further back. The division of the Ottoman empire along lines that bore no thought to the cultural, tribal, religious rivalry of the people living there.

They made nations arbitrarily to suit colonialists goals without knowledge of the people they were grouping together in these "countries". The same thing happened in Africa, and has also led to tragedies.

An excellent point.

 

[braineclipse]

Religious extremism, sectarianism, doesn't help in a situation like that.

But divide a "Christian country" up in the same way, add instability and a weaker government, no doubt it pretty much ends the same way. Nothing special about Islam in that regard.

 

[scaramanga]

Religious extremism, sectarianism, doesn't help in a situation like that.

But divide a "Christian country" up in the same way, add instability and a weaker government, no doubt it pretty much ends the same way. Nothing special about Islam in that regard.

Plenty of mentals in Northern Ireland.

 

[elltrev]

I was going to ask for source material to educate me on this as i feel woefully ill-informed. Any more that would help?

I’d highly recommend the book ‘All the Shah’s Men’, by Stephen Kinzer. It’s specifically about foreign interference in Iran.

 

[thfcsteff]

I’d highly recommend the book ‘All the Shah’s Men’, by Stephen Kinzer. It’s specifically about foreign interference in Iran.

Kinzer is brilliant.
I have read several of his books and all are top top drawer.

 

[DaveT316]

Thanks all. I’ll order that book.

I asked my brother too, whose wife is Iranian, and he recommended Coup 53 as a great, if hard, watch. Sounds like a good starting point.

 

[thfcsteff]

Thanks all. I’ll order that book.

I asked my brother too, whose wife is Iranian, and he recommended Coup 53 as a great, if hard, watch. Sounds like a good starting point.

One interesting side note is that The Shah was not a good guy either, he was a patsy. Savak were doing terrible terrible things on his watch (secret police) and swapped notes, etc with the CIA...

 

[stratnumberone]

Learned all about this unconquerable part of the world reading the first Flashman novel. Sure, it's a comedy but it paints a grim picture for any nation seeking to impose its will on this nation and its people. Not much has changed since - other than the reporting being far less amusing.

Can we return to football now?

A brilliant read. Oddly enough, I read it for the first time in Kabul nearly 15 years ago. It may well be a novel, but the huge amount of historical fact contained within makes the Flashman novels an excellent lesson about many of Britain’s past conflicts.