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Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Interest free is what we should hope for. Afterall its interest free loans Abramovich gave Chelsea only to write them off when FFP came in.
Interest free is what we should hope for. Afterall its interest free loans Abramovich gave Chelsea only to write them off when FFP came in.
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
ENIC made an interest free loan to the club of £40m earlier this year.
ENIC made an interest free loan to the club of £40m earlier this year.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Thanks for saving me the trouble, though. You're too kind. Especially considering that our training centre is apparently being reduced to just being among the best already, as opposed to being 'the best: it's only been two damn years since it opened. Though admittedly the concept of 'the best' when it comes to training grounds is still somewhat wooly to me. The best what? Lawn manicuring? Cobblestones? Number of pitches? LED lights?
Thanks for saving me the trouble, though. You're too kind. Especially considering that our training centre is apparently being reduced to just being among the best already, as opposed to being 'the best: it's only been two damn years since it opened. Though admittedly the concept of 'the best' when it comes to training grounds is still somewhat wooly to me. The best what? Lawn manicuring? Cobblestones? Number of pitches? LED lights?
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Eh?
What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
Do you want us to build a new training ground every year so that we can continue to say that we have the best one? Should we build a new stadium every year too?
BTW, the only training ground that will surpass ours in the near future is Emirates Marketing Project's - and theirs, at £100m, has been funded by a few barrels of some trillion dollars worth of oil.
Eh?
What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
Do you want us to build a new training ground every year so that we can continue to say that we have the best one? Should we build a new stadium every year too?
BTW, the only training ground that will surpass ours in the near future is Emirates Marketing Project's - and theirs, at £100m, has been funded by a few barrels of some trillion dollars worth of oil.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
40m spent on!?
...for the building's to be then sent to a Bahama holding company.
40m spent on!?
...for the building's to be then sent to a Bahama holding company.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
While I agree with your points (and always tend to) I will be interested to see how our stadium is eventually funded. Our owner at the minimum could easily underwrite to ensure a very competetive rate of interest. I have a feeling he isn't going to however (the comment about the Banks being lending averse if we opt for the option where we part build, move in, and then finish off later led me in that direction).
While I agree with your points (and always tend to) I will be interested to see how our stadium is eventually funded. Our owner at the minimum could easily underwrite to ensure a very competetive rate of interest. I have a feeling he isn't going to however (the comment about the Banks being lending averse if we opt for the option where we part build, move in, and then finish off later led me in that direction).
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
You're confusing two different things.
1. The supermarket / UTC site and a couple of other properties that the club owned on the west of the High Road were sold to an ENIC holding company (TH Property Ltd) at arms length. ENIC subsequently financed the building of the supermarket / UTC.
2. ENIC also made a £40m interest free loan to the club.
You're confusing two different things.
1. The supermarket / UTC site and a couple of other properties that the club owned on the west of the High Road were sold to an ENIC holding company (TH Property Ltd) at arms length. ENIC subsequently financed the building of the supermarket / UTC.
2. ENIC also made a £40m interest free loan to the club.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Right, and our owner is a pauper who subsists on food stamps and in no way made billions from currency trading/ owns a super-yacht that equals Abramovich's monster.
Tall order when we can't get even one off the ground 14 years after admitting that it was a necessity.
As for the training ground, like I said, not sure what makes a training ground 'the best'. Money spent on it? Jacuzzis, sports rehab equipment? Pitches? LED lighting?
A training ground is there to train footballers, and tend to their injuries. If it does that job adequately, to the full satisfaction of the manager in charge (and looks sparkly and shiny, given the attention spans of modern footballers being driven to the training ground before signing for us), then.... I don't really see a need to class the training ground as 'the best'.
And in any case, you can bet your ass that City will employ all the specialists that we apparently don't, to run their own training ground at maximum efficiency. Why don't we do it? Don't remember where I saw it, but 'cost grounds' was apparentl the primary consideration for why we don't have the specialists other teams do.
Right, and our owner is a pauper who subsists on food stamps and in no way made billions from currency trading/ owns a super-yacht that equals Abramovich's monster.
Tall order when we can't get even one off the ground 14 years after admitting that it was a necessity.
As for the training ground, like I said, not sure what makes a training ground 'the best'. Money spent on it? Jacuzzis, sports rehab equipment? Pitches? LED lighting?
A training ground is there to train footballers, and tend to their injuries. If it does that job adequately, to the full satisfaction of the manager in charge (and looks sparkly and shiny, given the attention spans of modern footballers being driven to the training ground before signing for us), then.... I don't really see a need to class the training ground as 'the best'.
And in any case, you can bet your ass that City will employ all the specialists that we apparently don't, to run their own training ground at maximum efficiency. Why don't we do it? Don't remember where I saw it, but 'cost grounds' was apparentl the primary consideration for why we don't have the specialists other teams do.
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Nothing like the Glazers.
Sure, ENIC want to get maximum return for minimum investment. That's a golden rule for any investor.
But the big difference - and it really is a humongously ginormous difference - is that ENIC don't take any money out of the club, let alone £60m every year as the Glazers do at Utd.
Nothing like the Glazers.
Sure, ENIC want to get maximum return for minimum investment. That's a golden rule for any investor.
But the big difference - and it really is a humongously ginormous difference - is that ENIC don't take any money out of the club, let alone £60m every year as the Glazers do at Utd.
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
I dunno. There's always so much mystery shrouding the club's announcements about the stadium and I'm not sure that we're going to get any clarity until a resolution to the Archway problem has been reached.
I can't see why Lewis wouldn't use his Tavistock clout to enable Spurs to secure funding at the best possible rate. That doesn't mean, though, that the banks will give us an entirely free ride. It'll also be interesting to see what part, if any, equity finance will play in the funding of the stadium.
I dunno. There's always so much mystery shrouding the club's announcements about the stadium and I'm not sure that we're going to get any clarity until a resolution to the Archway problem has been reached.
I can't see why Lewis wouldn't use his Tavistock clout to enable Spurs to secure funding at the best possible rate. That doesn't mean, though, that the banks will give us an entirely free ride. It'll also be interesting to see what part, if any, equity finance will play in the funding of the stadium.
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Arf!
Lewis is a beggar on the street by comparison to the Abu Dhabi royal family. Besides, Lewis's involvement is merely as an investor. Abu Dhabi's involvement is as an investor and as a PR offensive for their country.
Arf!
Lewis is a beggar on the street by comparison to the Abu Dhabi royal family. Besides, Lewis's involvement is merely as an investor. Abu Dhabi's involvement is as an investor and as a PR offensive for their country.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
I lived in Dubai: I know what the sheikhs who literally bailed out the ruler of Dubai himself (Sheikh Mohammed) in 2009 are worth, and what they're capable of. Nevertheless, I believe Mansour has poured somewhere in the region of 1.5 billion dollars into City since he took over.
That total, while enormous, is still less than half of Lewis' net worth.
Not suggesting that he should put around forty percent of his movable and immovable fortune to us (ha, ha, what a hope that would be, Lewis selling his billion-dollar art collection and putting it all into Spurs
), but relative to investment into their respective football clubs, the capabilities of both Mansour and Lewis aren't that far apart.
As for Lewis being just an investor, yes, you've got me there. An investor who puts as little as possible into his investment, even when he's guaranteed returns that far outweigh the amount he spent to acquire the investment in the first place. And an 'investor' who I dearly hope f*cks off and is replaced by someone who sees Tottenham Hotspur as a football club, not a low-risk asset or a cash cow. Before another City comes along and pushes us even further down the pecking order.
But ah, f*ck it. I'm derailing this thread. Back to talking about Archway burning and Naming Rights Lane, if you please.
I lived in Dubai: I know what the sheikhs who literally bailed out the ruler of Dubai himself (Sheikh Mohammed) in 2009 are worth, and what they're capable of. Nevertheless, I believe Mansour has poured somewhere in the region of 1.5 billion dollars into City since he took over.
That total, while enormous, is still less than half of Lewis' net worth.
Not suggesting that he should put around forty percent of his movable and immovable fortune to us (ha, ha, what a hope that would be, Lewis selling his billion-dollar art collection and putting it all into Spurs
), but relative to investment into their respective football clubs, the capabilities of both Mansour and Lewis aren't that far apart.As for Lewis being just an investor, yes, you've got me there. An investor who puts as little as possible into his investment, even when he's guaranteed returns that far outweigh the amount he spent to acquire the investment in the first place. And an 'investor' who I dearly hope f*cks off and is replaced by someone who sees Tottenham Hotspur as a football club, not a low-risk asset or a cash cow. Before another City comes along and pushes us even further down the pecking order.
But ah, f*ck it. I'm derailing this thread. Back to talking about Archway burning and Naming Rights Lane, if you please.
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
"In addition to acquiring the non-core properties and financing the Phase 1 build, ENIC has supported the Club by way of an interest free, unsecured loan of £40m. This loan will be converted, subject to shareholder approval, into non-voting preference share capital."
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/financial-results-shareholder-and-stadium-update-020414/
So basically they aren't going to take the money back, they are going to convert it into shares, thereby increasing their ownership of the club (say from the current 85% up to 95% or something).
The purpose of the loan was to clear our debts from the training ground build and property acquisition for the NDP, so that we can get more preferential loan rates for the stadium build.
"In addition to acquiring the non-core properties and financing the Phase 1 build, ENIC has supported the Club by way of an interest free, unsecured loan of £40m. This loan will be converted, subject to shareholder approval, into non-voting preference share capital."
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/financial-results-shareholder-and-stadium-update-020414/
So basically they aren't going to take the money back, they are going to convert it into shares, thereby increasing their ownership of the club (say from the current 85% up to 95% or something).
The purpose of the loan was to clear our debts from the training ground build and property acquisition for the NDP, so that we can get more preferential loan rates for the stadium build.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
If we had the finances and income UTD has I'd bet my house on it they would take 60m out of the club.
ultimately there aims are the same.. Own and build the club using club money, creating themselves huge assets for very little cash input in comparison.
when FFP allows billionaires to input money into infrastructure with a blank cheque I want Joe Lewis to fook off unless he shows other intentions other than selfish thoughts, this will not happen, as it would have been completed by now.. so I'd prefer someone that will.
i wouldn't be surprised if when we sell the bonds to finance its that **** Lewis who buys them and takes the interest for doing so.
If we had the finances and income UTD has I'd bet my house on it they would take 60m out of the club.
ultimately there aims are the same.. Own and build the club using club money, creating themselves huge assets for very little cash input in comparison.
when FFP allows billionaires to input money into infrastructure with a blank cheque I want Joe Lewis to fook off unless he shows other intentions other than selfish thoughts, this will not happen, as it would have been completed by now.. so I'd prefer someone that will.
i wouldn't be surprised if when we sell the bonds to finance its that **** Lewis who buys them and takes the interest for doing so.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
as I said above, Lewis will loan us the money via the bonds and charge us. Double slap in the face when you look to Liverpool.
as I said above, Lewis will loan us the money via the bonds and charge us. Double slap in the face when you look to Liverpool.
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
You'd lose your house, then.
The circumstances of ENIC's ownership of Spurs and the Glazer's ownership of Utd are entirely different.
ENIC have put £66m into Spurs over the past 10 years.
The Glazers have taken £600m out of Utd over the past 10 years (and will likely take another £600m before they are done).
ENIC's investment strategy is all about increasing the club's capital value.
The Glazer's strategy is all about farming the club's revenues.
ENIC will make their financial killing when they eventually sell the club for far more than they bought it.
The Glazers will make their financial killing once the debt that they burdened the club with is finally paid off (from club revenues).
Taking money out of the club would be harmful to ENIC's investment strategy.
Taking money out of the club is the only way that the Glazer's investment strategy adds up.
You'd lose your house, then.
The circumstances of ENIC's ownership of Spurs and the Glazer's ownership of Utd are entirely different.
ENIC have put £66m into Spurs over the past 10 years.
The Glazers have taken £600m out of Utd over the past 10 years (and will likely take another £600m before they are done).
ENIC's investment strategy is all about increasing the club's capital value.
The Glazer's strategy is all about farming the club's revenues.
ENIC will make their financial killing when they eventually sell the club for far more than they bought it.
The Glazers will make their financial killing once the debt that they burdened the club with is finally paid off (from club revenues).
Taking money out of the club would be harmful to ENIC's investment strategy.
Taking money out of the club is the only way that the Glazer's investment strategy adds up.
Re: Northumberland Development Project - Archway On Fire
Idle speculation on your part.
Idle speculation on your part.