Timo Werner

[Bedfordspurs]

He certainly has subbed him earlier in games than what's been the norm earlier in his career.

If we had more fit options I think perhaps once or twice he wouldn't have started and perhaps one or twice more been subbed after around an hour.

Son is still a wonderful player when he has that spring in his step, when he can go though the gears with relative ease.

He can still get us out of a hole when he's not. But it's less likely to happen. Imo somewhat less likely to take his chances, but significantly less likely to get them (or enough of them).

When he's not playing with a spring in his step the difference between him and Werner overall I think is at most marginal. I would rather have a sometimes firing Son, sometimes Son not playing than Son playing a lot, but frequently him lacking energy.

He has never been a good option when we have been a possession side
The son everyone remembers well was the guy playing jn the counter attacking football or the guy playing off a big man when Kane was out
He needs space to play in because his control isn’t great and he needs space to run into
I did say a month or so ago he would still be good in a counter attacking side because we have seen it this season but even then I’m not convinced
What annoys me is this guy is IMO a legend and we’re seeing his career here fade out in front of us because of how we’re managing him

 

[braineclipse]

He has never been a good option when we have been a possession side
The son everyone remembers well was the guy playing jn the counter attacking football or the guy playing off a big man when Kane was out
He needs space to play in because his control isn’t great and he needs space to run into
I did say a month or so ago he would still be good in a counter attacking side because we have seen it this season but even then I’m not convinced
What annoys me is this guy is IMO a legend and we’re seeing his career here fade out in front of us because of how we’re managing him

I agree that he's at his best when he has space to play in for sure. I think we offer him that at times.

He's still a very good player, and a good player in this role/system as long as he's not tired/exhausted imo. Not a great fit, but good enough to still be good.

Problems arise when he doesn't have that energy, and are worsened when others don't have energy and the majority of our players are "need space to play" type players. Like against Fulham.

Should be managed carefully to keep him effective, and as a byproduct we could then see a legend continue to be an effective player even though he's fading. Not to the extreme of Bale coming back, but something similar.

But that requires a fitter squad to pick up the other minutes.

 

[thfcsteff]

The club, well this club, needs a talisman, a player who is it’s figurehead
He is that man currently and it’s not healthy if he isn’t what he was (and the team isn’t either now we play possession football)
Then add in the merchandise optics which are absolutely nuts when you walk in the club shop

I know this mate. In fact, I heard he accounts for 70% of all personalized jerseys sold. It is precisely why I feel Ange is somewhat hamstrung with him, in fact, I'll go as far as to say I know it. Of course, being hamstrung by a player like Sonny is the best it could be -he is still a great player- but as we can all see, not in this system per se which as we have all discussed is where the issue lies...I don't think it takes Mensa-level genius to see that there is something of a succession plan in place with Yang Min-hyeok.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I know this mate. In fact, I heard he accounts for 70% of all personalized jerseys sold. It is precisely why I feel Ange is somewhat hamstrung with him, in fact, I'll go as far as to say I know it. Of course, being hamstrung by a player like Sonny is the best it could be -he is still a great player- but as we can all see, not in this system per se which as we have all discussed is where the issue lies...I don't think it takes Mensa-level genius to see that there is something of a succession plan in place with Yang Min-hyeok.

Well Yang looks like he has great potential so I’m excited
And he also plays on the right which is where we lack cover or options
Someone said online that son is like Salah except Salah has focussed on one thing
I can’t agree with his comments because Salah at the same age is still the best player in the league imo. His team suit him though
Sonny would suit some teams but I’m not sure who
He would suit us where we’re ahead and playing that smart counter game

 

[thfcsteff]

Well Yang looks like he has great potential so I’m excited
And he also plays on the right which is where we lack cover or options
Someone said online that son is like Salah except Salah has focussed on one thing
I can’t agree with his comments because Salah at the same age is still the best player in the league imo. His team suit him though
Sonny would suit some teams but I’m not sure who
He would suit us where we’re ahead and playing that smart counter game

I have only seen bits of Yang so I'll trust your judgement.

Yeah, I can't agree with that Son/Salah thing either. I think Sonny's greatest years have been with a great partner/partnership. Kane was brilliant for him in that regard. In a different system he could build something with Solanke, but I think we're in agreement it won't happen because of what the manager believes style-wise. It's so tricky, because he's still a great player but in certain systems and situations. I think your last sentence is bang on, and probably the place Ange hopes to be able to end up using him, but as to other points of discussion from earlier, we simply cannot be sure that is going to go down well either with Sonny or the heirarchy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I have only seen bits of Yang so I'll trust your judgement.

Yeah, I can't agree with that Son/Salah thing either. I think Sonny's greatest years have been with a great partner/partnership. Kane was brilliant for him in that regard. In a different system he could build something with Solanke, but I think we're in agreement it won't happen because of what the manager believes style-wise. It's so tricky, because he's still a great player but in certain systems and situations. I think your last sentence is bang on, and probably the place Ange hopes to be able to end up using him, but as to other points of discussion from earlier, we simply cannot be sure that is going to go down well either with Sonny or the heirarchy.

My yang comment is purely on snippets and the odd video
Nothing more so im not bf in a claim to be an expert
But it looks like he is two footed and also happy to go either way with the ball
But again that’s all on seeing a small amount of footage
What bothers me with Sonny is what we did with Hugo… we damaged a legacy, all be it briefly and id hate that for another player who has given his career to the club

 

[Muttley]

I have only seen bits of Yang so I'll trust your judgement.

Yeah, I can't agree with that Son/Salah thing either. I think Sonny's greatest years have been with a great partner/partnership. Kane was brilliant for him in that regard. In a different system he could build something with Solanke, but I think we're in agreement it won't happen because of what the manager believes style-wise. It's so tricky, because he's still a great player but in certain systems and situations. I think your last sentence is bang on, and probably the place Ange hopes to be able to end up using him, but as to other points of discussion from earlier, we simply cannot be sure that is going to go down well either with Sonny or the heirarchy.

The best years from Salah and Mane were when they played with their own Solanke........Firminho. The Brazilian gave everything so those two could grab all of the headlines. He dropped deep, he took the hits and dragged defenders out to create the space for the two superstars.

The problem is that Sonny almost plays better in attacking areas when he doesn't over think things. He's not like Johnson who is using his brain well to exploit the great work from Solanke in that Firminho role. Most of Sonny's goals and assists are actually quite instinctive.

I'm sensing that Sonny isn't fully fit, and is now starting that decline through age. I'm also sensing that Ange has scrambled his brain and, as captain, he's following instructions but doesn't quite believe in them. We saw that with Jose when Sonny was put in that wide position and the player went into on-pitch strike mode in the end. He's a free spirit and didn't want to be another Jose machine. You get that in a 2 man forward partnership. You don't as a wide forward.

I actually think that Sonny won't be around that much longer. The player himself will want one final adventure and realise there is a misalignment with what he can achieve elsewhere in an easier league and our own trajectory in the PL.