• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Timo Werner

superspurs said:
Those 3 assists don't count the own goals he created do they? so really he's created 5 goals from his play, which is a very good return since January if you ask me.
Click to expand...
OGs don’t count for any stats hence why Forrest had a better Xg at the weekend
Odd because of they are enforced by attacking play they should
We don’t get penalties but we do force OGs
 
Bedfordspurs said:
OGs don’t count for any stats hence why Forrest had a better Xg at the weekend
Odd because of they are enforced by attacking play they should
We don’t get penalties but we do force OGs
Click to expand...
I think it's because OGs are considered as defensive mistakes rather than being caused directly from attacking play.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Sure that’s the case
But enforced OGs are different to the eye
Stats don’t work like that though
Click to expand...
Nope, I like stats and they can be useful but only as a complimentary element to what you see with your eyes.

Like I'm all for scouting via stats to identify players who have the specific attributes you're looking for but I'd always expect a scout to then really watch and evaluate the player to see how they play. It's bit like with assists not all assists have the same weight and value when you watch how they played out and the same with OGs.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I do love how a thread can go off topic so much but at what’s can be left polite

What I’ll throw in to this again because it’s timo related is if we choose into not to buy him, that’s gonna be anges call I’m sure so I’m fine with it

But if we don’t fix the defensive and CF issues we can can have the best player on the planet wide left and still struggle because we will be conceding too many and won’t have anyone to bang the crosses in that this player will be sending
Click to expand...
What’s the centre forward issue you’re referring to?
 
RunTMC said:
What’s the centre forward issue you’re referring to?
Click to expand...
We don’t have anyone playing central and holding the ball up. We’re really poor at it and son can’t do that. Richy can to a point but can’t stay fit for a whole season
We need a CF who stays in the box and gets in then end of the tap ins like we saw sonny doing when initially moved central and richy was doing when fit
The last 4/5 games we have had no presence in the area and it has shown with the opposition defence dealing with most of our attacks comfortably. Yes we have scored and the number of goals is great but we would score a lot more with a real Cf there.
Toney would score 30 plus goals for us
Watkins probably more but less other involvement
And we could potentially get better than both with the right recruitment
And that’s not a slight on son or richy but neither is a CF. They changed roles to mix it up later in their careers but have real holes in the way they play for Ange ball. Neither holds the ball up well and lately we have seen sonny occuo6 more space outside the area than in it. richy doesn’t do that (draft for the ball) but I’d argue he doesn’t have other facets that son has.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We don’t have anyone playing central and holding the ball up. We’re really poor at it and son can’t do that. Richy can to a point but can’t stay fit for a whole season
We need a CF who stays in the box and gets in then end of the tap ins like we saw sonny doing when initially moved central and richy was doing when fit
The last 4/5 games we have had no presence in the area and it has shown with the opposition defence dealing with most of our attacks comfortably. Yes we have scored and the number of goals is great but we would score a lot more with a real Cf there.
Toney would score 30 plus goals for us
Watkins probably more but less other involvement
And we could potentially get better than both with the right recruitment
And that’s not a slight on son or richy but neither is a CF. They changed roles to mix it up later in their careers but have real holes in the way they play for Ange ball. Neither holds the ball up well and lately we have seen sonny occuo6 more space outside the area than in it. richy doesn’t do that (draft for the ball) but I’d argue he doesn’t have other facets that son has.
Click to expand...
Fair comments. Son is a bit of an elephant in the room really. He’s our best player and captain, world class and would get into almost any team. But he doesn’t quite fit the system as nearly as we’d like. So much of our play breaks down when it gets to him as he’s easily dispossessed or his wayward passing.

But he does score goals, plenty of them. He’ll stay in the team, I don’t think we’re looking to replace him.
 
RunTMC said:
Fair comments. Son is a bit of an elephant in the room really. He’s our best player and captain, world class and would get into almost any team. But he doesn’t quite fit the system as nearly as we’d like. So much of our play breaks down when it gets to him as he’s easily dispossessed or his wayward passing.

But he does score goals, plenty of them. He’ll stay in the team, I don’t think we’re looking to replace him.
Click to expand...
I agree
Him and Kulu are now, IMO big issues
Both top drawer players but not right for Ange ball for differing reasons
Son could be playing wide left as he is two footed but he has never really been that creator. Would be a goal threat with room to run into though
Kulu mainly because he is a cut in guy which means his outside is exposed
I don’t think either player is likely to be replaced but I think there roles will change
 
RunTMC said:
Fair comments. Son is a bit of an elephant in the room really. He’s our best player and captain, world class and would get into almost any team. But he doesn’t quite fit the system as nearly as we’d like. So much of our play breaks down when it gets to him as he’s easily dispossessed or his wayward passing.

But he does score goals, plenty of them. He’ll stay in the team, I don’t think we’re looking to replace him.
Click to expand...


Without meaning to tinkle on anyone's bonfire Son is now coming up 32.

I trust he looks after himself well - being the epitome of a pro that he is. But some point in the next couple of years you would imagine his output is going to reduce.

Obviosuly I so hope I am wrong about that, that he turns out to be one of these blokes who goes on till 37 playing the same.

But I would imagine his playing style and explosiveness does not suit a high level of play in his mid 30's.

Not for a second am I advocating moving on from him. We have to keep him for as long as possible.

But we do have to bear in mind there is the possibility of a sudden drop from him. Could be next year or two years. Either way he's not going to go on forever.
 
Craig_J said:
Without meaning to tinkle on anyone's bonfire Son is now coming up 32.

I trust he looks after himself well - being the epitome of a pro that he is. But some point in the next couple of years you would imagine his output is going to reduce.

Obviosuly I so hope I am wrong about that, that he turns out to be one of these blokes who goes on till 37 playing the same.

But I would imagine his playing style and explosiveness does not suit a high level of play in his mid 30's.

Not for a second am I advocating moving on from him. We have to keep him for as long as possible.

But we do have to bear in mind there is the possibility of a sudden drop from him. Could be next year or two years. Either way he's not going to go on forever.
Click to expand...
I think it's already happened to him regarding playing on the left. He's lost a tiny bit of that burst that got him past a player and kept him ahead of them. Thing with Son is he was never really a true dribbler but he could definitely beat a man 1 v 1 and then his acceleration would leave for dead, without that little burst it makes it difficult for him to beat players anymore. So now his game is more reliant on his world class finishing, hence the middle suiting him more now. Imo.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It frustrates him too I’m sure
But then he gets in those positions because he is doing something right I guess
Click to expand...

His pace is obviously electrifying. I'm not sure whether he's also a fantastic dribbler, or just his pace on the ball makes him look like one.

But he does so well to get through. Time and time again it's an exact straight on goal situation, What looks like a routine finish. He just lacks that precision. But if he did have that precision he would be world class and to much for us to afford.

Personally I can accept him with his faults.

I might be mistaken here but I think he played more centrally as Chelsea and not out wide??? I think on the wing suits him more.

Guess when you compare to a player we might've signed in recent years for around the same price, Adama Traore, both of them have a lot of trouble when it comes to finishing. But I think Werner's a far superior footballer to him (I am aware they play opposite sides)
 
Craig_J said:
His pace is obviously electrifying. I'm not sure whether he's also a fantastic dribbler, or just his pace on the ball makes him look like one.

But he does so well to get through. Time and time again it's an exact straight on goal situation, What looks like a routine finish. He just lacks that precision. But if he did have that precision he would be world class and to much for us to afford.

Personally I can accept him with his faults.

I might be mistaken here but I think he played more centrally as Chelsea and not out wide??? I think on the wing suits him more.

Guess when you compare to a player we might've signed in recent years for around the same price, Adama Traore, both of them have a lot of trouble when it comes to finishing. But I think Werner's a far superior footballer to him (I am aware they play opposite sides)
Click to expand...
Diaz at pool and Jesus at Arsenal have similar scoring records

I also do think he has had that many runs as you describe on goal. I can think of 2

He doesn’t play central for us but did at Chelsea when he won the CL
 
Craig_J said:
His pace is obviously electrifying. I'm not sure whether he's also a fantastic dribbler, or just his pace on the ball makes him look like one.

But he does so well to get through. Time and time again it's an exact straight on goal situation, What looks like a routine finish. He just lacks that precision. But if he did have that precision he would be world class and to much for us to afford.

Personally I can accept him with his faults.

I might be mistaken here but I think he played more centrally as Chelsea and not out wide??? I think on the wing suits him more.

Guess when you compare to a player we might've signed in recent years for around the same price, Adama Traore, both of them have a lot of trouble when it comes to finishing. But I think Werner's a far superior footballer to him (I am aware they play opposite sides)
Click to expand...
It's most definitely not just his pace. Werner has skill. He beats a man one on one with skill, he did so in one of the recent home games as an example to create a one on one with the keeper but his shot went wide.

Of course some wanted to focus on him missing this 'sitter' (which it wasn't albeit should have got the shot on target at the very least) but we don't have another attacking player who can beat a defender one on one purely with skill. Technically he is very good, but his finishing of course can be criticised....
 
harr1984 said:
It's most definitely not just his pace. Werner has skill. He beats a man one on one with skill, he did so in one of the recent home games as an example to create a one on one with the keeper but his shot went wide.

Of course some wanted to focus on him missing this 'sitter' (which it wasn't albeit should have got the shot on target at the very least) but we don't have another attacking player who can beat a defender one on one purely with skill. Technically he is very good, but his finishing of course can be criticised....
Click to expand...
We have been spoilt with finishing
We had the best in the world in Kane and son
A normal elite players doesn’t hit those levels
 
Bishop said:
I think it's already happened to him regarding playing on the left. He's lost a tiny bit of that burst that got him past a player and kept him ahead of them. Thing with Son is he was never really a true dribbler but he could definitely beat a man 1 v 1 and then his acceleration would leave for dead, without that little burst it makes it difficult for him to beat players anymore. So now his game is more reliant on his world class finishing, hence the middle suiting him more now. Imo.
Click to expand...

He can still do a job on the left but I agree he’s more suited to being in the centre. I must say I’m perplexed by this recent narrative that he’s the issue with our forward line despite scoring 15 league goals whilst missing a month at the Asian cup. He’s not a player that attacks the 6 yard box, so what? He still gets goals from other areas of the pitch. It would be a problem if he wasn’t attacking those areas and also wasn’t chipping in with goals but he is. More than any other player in the team.
 
Jurgen the German said:
IMG_0333.jpegHe can still do a job on the left but I agree he’s more suited to being in the centre. I must say I’m perplexed by this recent narrative that he’s the issue with our forward line despite scoring 15 league goals whilst missing a month at the Asian cup. He’s not a player that attacks the 6 yard box, so what? He still gets goals from other areas of the pitch. It would be a problem if he wasn’t attacking those areas and also wasn’t chipping in with goals but he is. More than any other player in the team.
Click to expand...
He doesn’t get goals from other areas of the pitch
He used too
In this system… he has scored one goal vs Burnley outside of the box and that was a one on one.
In fact our record for goals from over 12 yards from goal is almost non-existent
So are we getting the best out of him asking him to be a fox in the box? That’s not his game but that’s what the system needs.
Old article but explains the issue here in where he is now playing https://www.skysports.com/football/...under-ange-postecoglou-after-harry-kanes-exit

The above image of where his goals have come from

We need him to be the CF and focal point but he can’t do that

Every team has to have players that suit their set up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back