Timo Werner

[Bullet]

I saw that video, and while the finishing was good for most parts, there is no pressure at all.

Not just Werner, but some of those first touches, or time it took from the first touch to getting a shot away you won't get away with in a game. Someone will have closed you down or taken the ball away already.

For me, is Werner with buying in the summer? I don't know.

I think we need to decide on where players like Son will be playing, if Richalison is staying or will be busy a new striker.

Werner has good pace, but he doesn't anticipate enough for me. He can react to what's going on quickly though.

Solomon has a big question mark over his fitness, and I think he plays with his head down too much, but who would you keep, if we kept one of them?

Agreed, I feel Solomon is a 3/10 and Werner is a 7/10 but I want a 9/10 player.
When they do "The Premier League Years 2025" in the year 2040, I am guessing Solomon is Gio Dos Santos level and Werner is Pav level i.e. meh

 

[spurspinter1]

Agreed, I feel Solomon is a 3/10 and Werner is a 7/10 but I want a 9/10 player.
When they do "The Premier League Years 2025" in the year 2040, I am guessing Solomon is Gio Dos Santos level and Werner is Pav level i.e. meh

Perhaps it's an unfair comparison as Solomon has mainly been injured but in a much shorter time Timo has made a much more telling contribution. Given the amount he's played, it's obvious we needed to make a signing like that and he has hit the ground running.

On Manor, I don't know, the situation just seemed a bit off and the Shaktar chairmen's recent comments/ unhappiness about the deal didn't make it feel less murky. If Wales invaded England and the country was in conflict does that mean that overseas clubs could come in and get valuable players that were under contract for free? I don't understand it well enough to say whether we as a club did anything wrong, but it does seem off to capitalize on war. Aside from all that I have seen little to convince me off him as a player, just seemed a punt that has not worked out. Plenty of time for that to change I guess.

 

[Baleforce]

I like both of them.

Solomon played 5 games, got 2 assists.

Werner has played 10, 2 goals, 3 assists.

They are very different in style too, which could be a good balance.

Happy with them as our left wing options next season.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I like both of them.

Solomon played 5 games, got 2 assists.

Werner has played 10, 2 goals, 3 assists.

They are very different in style too, which could be a good balance.

Happy with them as our left wing options next season.

Don’t complain when we don’t challenge the top teams then.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Honestly, from a tactical perspective, Werner is very valuable because he does what Ange wants, and what makes the system work - he goes down the outside, and even though he's right footed, is pretty comfortable crossing with his left. It stretches the play.

Johnson on the right also works in this system - goes down the outside, crosses with his stronger foot. Aaron Lennon would have worked wonders in an Ange system. Kulu, by contrast, absolutely does not, because he cuts inside and runs into traffic, jamming up the middle.

And the thing is, if you look up today's hotshot wingers that we've been linked to, there are actually surprisingly few that do this - most these days are inverted wingers, cutting into their stronger foot.

* Kubo? One-footed, cuts onto his left all the time.
* Neto? Ditto.
* Olise? Entirely one-footed, cuts in from right to left.

And so on. The days of traditional wingers able to go down the outside are gone, which makes Werner's skillset more valuable than it otherwise would be.

It isn't going to be easy to replace him, I think. Despite his flaws.

 

[Bishop]

Honestly, from a tactical perspective, Werner is very valuable because he does what Ange wants, and what makes the system work - he goes down the outside, and even though he's right footed, is pretty comfortable crossing with his left. It stretches the play.

Johnson on the right also works in this system - goes down the outside, crosses with his stronger foot. Aaron Lennon would have worked wonders in an Ange system. Kulu, by contrast, absolutely does not, because he cuts inside and runs into traffic, jamming up the middle.

And the thing is, if you look up today's hotshot wingers that we've been linked to, there are actually surprisingly few that do this - most these days are inverted wingers, cutting into their stronger foot.

* Kubo? One-footed, cuts onto his left all the time.
* Neto? Ditto.
* Olise? Entirely one-footed, cuts in from right to left.

And so on. The days of traditional wingers able to go down the outside are gone, which makes Werner's skillset more valuable than it otherwise would be.

It isn't going to be easy to replace him, I think. Despite his flaws.

Nico Williams does everything Werner does but at a level or two better. He would have course also cost 2x or 3x as much, but then do we want to win the league or not? Dani Olmo is another option (I wish we had indeed bought him 3 years ago ).

Edit:

I'm also not sure Ange necessarily wants some who hugs the touchline. At the start of the season Soloman was getting games and he is very much the cut in to the centre type. It's probably a match dependant situation for Ange.

 

[jrh]

Nico Williams does everything Werner does but at a level or two better. He would have course also cost 2x or 3x as much, but then do we want to win the league or not? Dani Olmo is another option (I wish we had indeed bought him 3 years ago ).

Edit:

I'm also not sure Ange necessarily wants some who hugs the touchline. At the start of the season Soloman was getting games and he is very much the cut in to the centre type. It's probably a match dependant situation for Ange.

A level or two better based on what exactly? His goal/assist return is worse. So you mean he does flashy step-overs on YouTube and it looks nice?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nico Williams does everything Werner does but at a level or two better. He would have course also cost 2x or 3x as much, but then do we want to win the league or not? Dani Olmo is another option (I wish we had indeed bought him 3 years ago ).

Edit:

I'm also not sure Ange necessarily wants some who hugs the touchline. At the start of the season Soloman was getting games and he is very much the cut in to the centre type. It's probably a match dependant situation for Ange.

Listen to the Ben Davies interview on the ESPN podcast and he talks about what Ange wants form his players

The only fixed position on the pitch are the keeper and the wingers who stay wide. Fans like players like Williams because their runs and oaky are boosted exciting but… that’s not how Ange plays today. Williams was great yesterday and is 100% a spurs type of player. But is a spurs player what Ange needs and is that the mistake we have made before. Gil is a spurs type of player but is weak as a kitten and goes backwards now rather than forwards. Williams is nothing like him because he is physically super strong but with the other issues in the squad I personally think a wide forward js lower down on Anges priorities
I do think Williams would love the chances to attack some crosses though which is how we play and he easily could play out game if asked

 

[Bishop]

A level or two better based on what exactly? His goal/assist return is worse. So you mean he does flashy step-overs on YouTube and it looks nice?

Williams is a creator, he will beat tighter defences and do deeper penalty box incisions, he would help keep the ball in the final third better and help us score more goals overall. Watch him, hes much more than just flash.

 

[afsoc4life]

Agreed, I feel Solomon is a 3/10 and Werner is a 7/10 but I want a 9/10 player.
When they do "The Premier League Years 2025" in the year 2040, I am guessing Solomon is Gio Dos Santos level and Werner is Pav level i.e. meh

Solomon for me

 

[Raziel]

Genuinely this thread is a very weird conversation

- Werner fits the system, has made an impact, seems to have fit in immediately

For him to be suddenly the guy that needs upgrading and any rationality around priorities before getting to Werner is lack of ambition and meh.

Priorities in this team

- CDM that can help reduce the >15+ Goals conceded more than top 3 (that is why we are not challenging)
- Cover/rotation/upgrade on Maddison
- Upgrade on Deki
- Upgrade on Richi
- Backup upgrade for GK & both FBs

For me, that's 7 players before getting to Werner .

 

[Jurgen the German]

Genuinely this thread is a very weird conversation

- Werner fits the system, has made an impact, seems to have fit in immediately

For him to be suddenly the guy that needs upgrading and any rationality around priorities before getting to Werner is lack of ambition and meh.

Priorities in this team

- CDM that can help reduce the >15+ Goals conceded more than top 3 (that is why we are not challenging)
- Cover/rotation/upgrade on Maddison
- Upgrade on Deki
- Upgrade on Richi
- Backup upgrade for GK & both FBs

For me, that's 7 players before getting to Werner .

People aren’t saying he’s the only player we need to upgrade, clearly we still need upgrades or better backups in multiple positions, but the biggest areas we need to address are the forward line as a whole (Son aside) and an improved DM. It’s not solely Werner that can and should be upgraded on and I don’t think anyone has suggested the others are all top quality and we can do no better in recruiting in that area.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

People aren’t saying he’s the only player we need to upgrade, clearly we still need upgrades or better backups in multiple positions, but the biggest areas we need to address are the forward line as a whole (Son aside) and an improved DM. It’s not solely Werner that can and should be upgraded on and I don’t think anyone has suggested the others are all top quality and we can do no better in recruiting in that area.

Son is part of the issue
Get a proper CF in and son can rotate on the left with Werner

 

[Jurgen the German]

Son is part of the issue
Get a proper CF in and son can rotate on the left with Werner

No thanks for me. Son is better in the middle. Son can play on the left in an emergency but I’d rather upgrade Werner. Struggle to see how he’s part of the issue when he’s got 15 league goals and 9 assists.

 

[Sandman]

Genuinely this thread is a very weird conversation

- Werner fits the system, has made an impact, seems to have fit in immediately

For him to be suddenly the guy that needs upgrading and any rationality around priorities before getting to Werner is lack of ambition and meh.

Priorities in this team

- CDM that can help reduce the >15+ Goals conceded more than top 3 (that is why we are not challenging)
- Cover/rotation/upgrade on Maddison
- Upgrade on Deki
- Upgrade on Richi
- Backup upgrade for GK & both FBs

For me, that's 7 players before getting to Werner .

I would hope a couple of these can come from players coming up from the youth.

Royal is not a bad option as a back up.
we really need a top quality wide player. Johnson I think can move up a gear. Werner is a decent option for the squad.
CDM - totally agree.
Cover for Madders - totally agree although a confident Deki is not a bad option here.
Surely its time one of the youth keepers was a back up.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No thanks for me. Son is better in the middle. Son can play on the left in an emergency but I’d rather upgrade Werner. Struggle to see how he’s part of the issue when he’s got 15 league goals and 9 assists.

Because is he started in the middle he would have more. Imagine having a CF actually playing CF… son got an assist for VDV goal. He literally passed it 3 yards and it was only scored because of what VDV did. It’s why stats don’t show the actual real impact
You know how you’re arguing that Werner can be upgraded upon… his stats are pretty damn good too. 2 goals, 3 assists and an OG from his cross in 11 appearances (not starts).

 

[Lilbaz]

I would hope a couple of these can come from players coming up from the youth.

Royal is not a bad option as a back up.
we really need a top quality wide player. Johnson I think can move up a gear. Werner is a decent option for the squad.
CDM - totally agree.
Cover for Madders - totally agree although a confident Deki is not a bad option here.
Surely its time one of the youth keepers was a back up.

Rather an experienced keeper for backup. Let the youth gain experience. Although 1 will probably be 3rd choice for the club trained places.

 

[Bishop]

Genuinely this thread is a very weird conversation

- Werner fits the system, has made an impact, seems to have fit in immediately

For him to be suddenly the guy that needs upgrading and any rationality around priorities before getting to Werner is lack of ambition and meh.

Priorities in this team

- CDM that can help reduce the >15+ Goals conceded more than top 3 (that is why we are not challenging)
- Cover/rotation/upgrade on Maddison
- Upgrade on Deki
- Upgrade on Richi
- Backup upgrade for GK & both FBs

For me, that's 7 players before getting to Werner .

The conversation is that he's not our player as he is on loan and therefore we should not purchase him if he is the plan for the LWF as he's simply not of the standard required. I want to win the league, Werner is not going to do that for us.

If we sign someone else, maybe a Nusa or similar than I'm fine with Werner as another option, but no I do not think he is good enough to be the starter.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Because is he started in the middle he would have more. Imagine having a CF actually playing CF… son got an assist for VDV goal. He literally passed it 3 yards and it was only scored because of what VDV did. It’s why stats don’t show the actual real impact
You know how you’re arguing that Werner can be upgraded upon… his stats are pretty damn good too. 2 goals, 3 assists and an OG from his cross in 11 appearances (not starts).

I think it depends what our aims are. If the fanbase are happy with top 4 then Werner should be enough. If we want forwards in the same calibre of the top 3 then IMO we need better as a starter.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think it depends what our aims are. If the fanbase are happy with top 4 then Werner should be enough. If we want forwards in the same calibre of the top 3 then IMO we need better as a starter.

Werner’s numbers are as good as the players in the top 3 playing as a wide forward/winger.
Goal or assist every other game
He also misses less than most but they always seem glaring kind alike Nunez or Diaz or Jesus
Don’t get me wrong, I always want upgrades and improvement. But I also think we have an issue with under rating our own and over rating others. And im sure you will say im doing the opposite but the stats show what Werner is actually delivering
As I say… he compared to Diaz very well but for less money