Timo Werner

[Jurgen the German]

I don't actually mind Werner. He's a functional option there, same as Dempsey and Chadli were in that role in years before Son.

I think my concern is that with Son's age, we need to be finding and starting to bring through a long term successor this season. But now we've delayed that process for a year.

We clearly don’t like him enough at this point to make him a permanent signing. I’m not sure what we’re expecting to see from him in the next season to make us decide we want to sign him permanently. We know what his strengths and weaknesses are at his age, he’s not an unknown entity. Ange seemed a rather non-committal when asked about Werner immediately after his injury. Seems like a stopgap move and like you I was hoping we would start the process of a succession plan for Son and we’ve just delayed it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

We will get in a striker and the DM for sure IMO. That’s the two biggest weaknesses in the squad.. unless Ange has some magic plan for Lankshear to step up that is

But we should also look at these youngsters and create a plan now for bringing them through

If it mean short term signings for a year or so it may mean better long term.

Werner is a squad signing which is a huge upgrade on an option like Gil

We as a club have to build the squad IMO before we build the final product. It’s the foundations that all clubs go through. Klopp first trophy winning side had one player that he inherited

Artetas is the reverse because of circumstances

Pep has changed and changed again his first 11

But it’s all from a basis of quantity with quality. Right now we don’t have enough quantity with the basic qualities.

We have one CF and youngsters
We will have one DM in Bissouma plus Skipp who never gets played there (assuming Hojberg leaves)

That’s huge issues that have to be tackled because the numbers don’t stack up

Then we lack cover at full back which again was An issue this season. It possible moving VDV or Radu may fix that but that’s weakening the team to fix an issue

I think we will also get a new wide forward for the right to challenge Johnson.

That’s how I see things developing but of course we may not sign players in that order

I don’t see him as a “huge upgrade” on Gil. An upgrade yes but not that much better. I’ll be disappointed if we don’t sign another wide player in this window. Completely agree we need an upgrade in the striker position but the wide forwards aren’t good enough either. All Werner has given us is depth, he hasn’t made our forward line that much better IMO.

 

[Chrissivad]

I don't actually mind Werner. He's a functional option there, same as Dempsey and Chadli were in that role in years before Son.

I think my concern is that with Son's age, we need to be finding and starting to bring through a long term successor this season. But now we've delayed that process for a year.

I guess it depends how high the club rate Moore and if they do, when he will break into the first team.

Son a few more seasons, bring in Moore at 17 or 18 to be his back up/rotation.

Means we would need 1 or 2 seasons of cover there before he is ready. So either pay for a short term contract for someone, or go for loans.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't think there's any chance of that. The 7th forward will/should probably be taken by someone like Donnely or Moore (maybe half a season each, with a loan in the opposite).

Possibly. I also think there's a chance of another incoming there. We'll hopefully have a ton of games, several of our players will probably need their minutes managed a bit. Along with injuries I think there's room for that.

I don't actually mind Werner. He's a functional option there, same as Dempsey and Chadli were in that role in years before Son.

I think my concern is that with Son's age, we need to be finding and starting to bring through a long term successor this season. But now we've delayed that process for a year.

Depends on what the plan is behind the scenes. Does this allow us to sign someone like that now (or a bit later), does this give us good cover while wait for Moore (or others) to develop further. Is it part of the plan to be able to use Moore a bit without having to rely too much on him if Son is injured for example.

I think it's fair to assume that the Werner signing is a part of an overall plan that includes some of the stuff you bring up. One may think it's not the best plan, but assuming that it's being done without a plan I think is a bit harsh.

 

[parklane1]

I do not think Werner is going to be a regular pick in our forward line but as a option he is a decent one. We will have far more games to play next season then we have had, I do not think any fan thinks he is going to play the majority of games for us. It seems there are some fans who look back at how poor he was at Chelski and are judging him on that alone.

We need a squad that can cope with the extra games and he is good enough [imo] to be part of that.

 

[braineclipse]

We clearly don’t like him enough at this point to make him a permanent signing. I’m not sure what we’re expecting to see from him in the next season to make us decide we want to sign him permanently. We know what his strengths and weaknesses are at his age, he’s not an unknown entity. Ange seemed a rather non-committal when asked about Werner immediately after his injury. Seems like a stopgap move and like you I was hoping we would start the process of a succession plan for Son and we’ve just delayed it.

We still hold all the cards with an option to buy. If we're doing this first move of the window because we're non committal or not backing Ange what that would say about how we're doing business would be a much greater problem than signing Werner on loan.

I think more likely it's because it's a part of the succession plan and depending on how we progress we may or may not have a need for Werner 12 months from now.

The club being unclear on what the succession plan for Son is, loaning Werner as a stop gap because he's fairly cheap and available and just seeing where we move from there would be really bad. I cannot imagine that we're paying people in our football structure the kind of money we're paying them and them being so absolutely clueless.

I'm not saying the plan is perfect, the best plan or beyond criticising. But surely there must be a plan?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don’t see him as a “huge upgrade” on Gil. An upgrade yes but not that much better. I’ll be disappointed if we don’t sign another wide player in this window. Completely agree we need an upgrade in the striker position but the wide forwards aren’t good enough either. All Werner has given us is depth, he hasn’t made our forward line that much better IMO.

He was statistically performing better than almost anyone in the league before he got injured
The issue was he supplying no one.. as we had son on the half way line

If it’s him and son Left supplying a new CF that’s a big upgrade for me. Son never was and never is a CF in possession based side but he is a great wide attacker when fit

Johnson produced good numbers but again where was the man in ten box to maximise those crosses…

That’s the area of biggest improvement in attack for now.

He is miles better than Gil. He passes forwards for a start… that alone is a huge differentiator. And he is a squad player. We need depth next season

The year after is when you add the icing on the cake

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I do not think Werner is going to be a regular pick in our forward line but as a option he is a decent one. We will have far more games to play next season then we have had, I do not think any fan thinks he is going to play the majority of games for us. It seems there are some fans who look back at how poor he was at Chelski and are judging him on that alone.

We need a squad that can cope with the extra games and he is good enough [imo] to be part of that.

His Chelsea numbers are ones that most of their current squad would die for …

And he wasn’t a success

That’s scary right

The issue with Werner is his finishing is poor. The benefits with Werner is he beats his man and can pass with both feet. That’s why he creates chances. As a squad option that’s a big plus

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We clearly don’t like him enough at this point to make him a permanent signing. I’m not sure what we’re expecting to see from him in the next season to make us decide we want to sign him permanently. We know what his strengths and weaknesses are at his age, he’s not an unknown entity. Ange seemed a rather non-committal when asked about Werner immediately after his injury. Seems like a stopgap move and like you I was hoping we would start the process of a succession plan for Son and we’ve just delayed it.

We have the successor here already
He just isn’t ready
Surely you can see that buying Musa and Williams for big ish money would not send a great message for a talent widely regarded as best in class for his age?
Werner and son as players for that role with Moore as an option too is fine for the next few years (we won’t buy Werner IMO).
I’d be more worried right now if we spent money on a new number 10 as that wouldn’t be good for someone like Donley

Say we do go for Toney.. we get 2/3 great years out of him and have Lankshear ready to phase him out (like Kane did with Adebeyor)

I am of course speculating we have a plan…

 

[spurspinter1]

I thought my post was clear, I'm not frustrated or even venting. I just don't think Werner is of the level required for a starter. If we sign someone in addition then I have no complaints.. I just don't want to see people complaint about what we don't achieve while at the same time lauding signings such as this one.

Utd signed a 40 year old Evans and won the FA Cup (with him on the pitch at the time). Maybe we should have signed him to guarantee success?

This not being the most flashy transfer isn't going to be a reason to say "I hate to say I told you so" if the season doesn't work out. It's odd that people are acting like squad depth is a bad thing (not you), I'm of the same mind that ideally we can get another forward in, whilst moving on Gill, Solomon and Veliz on a loan. Nobody is saying that a front line of Werner, Richy and Johnson is going to be winning the league singlehandedly but all players are ones that Ange rates and can be hugely impactful during the course of an ideally busier season.

 

[braineclipse]

Utd signed a 40 year old Evans and won the FA Cup (with him on the pitch at the time). Maybe we should have signed him to guarantee success?

This not being the most flashy transfer isn't going to be a reason to say "I hate to say I told you so" if the season doesn't work out. It's odd that people are acting like squad depth is a bad thing (not you), I'm of the same mind that ideally we can get another forward in, whilst moving on Gill, Solomon and Veliz on a loan. Nobody is saying that a front line of Werner, Richy and Johnson is going to be winning the league singlehandedly but all players are ones that Ange rates and can be hugely impactful during the course of an ideally busier season.

Spot on. Llorrente and Lucas weren't exactly take us to the next level type players, played an important role none the less. Football history is full of those stories and those players are needed as part of a good overall strategy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Utd signed a 40 year old Evans and won the FA Cup (with him on the pitch at the time). Maybe we should have signed him to guarantee success?

This not being the most flashy transfer isn't going to be a reason to say "I hate to say I told you so" if the season doesn't work out. It's odd that people are acting like squad depth is a bad thing (not you), I'm of the same mind that ideally we can get another forward in, whilst moving on Gill, Solomon and Veliz on a loan. Nobody is saying that a front line of Werner, Richy and Johnson is going to be winning the league singlehandedly but all players are ones that Ange rates and can be hugely impactful during the course of an ideally busier season.

We should has signed Evans ages ago
He was that bridge we needed of experience and availability…

 

[Raziel]

I just don’t see what good it does pretending they’re as good as Arsenal, Emirates Marketing Project etc when in reality they’re not. Signings like Werner aren’t going to take us to the next level.

Arsenal is a very interesting example, man for man, with the exception of Saka, their frontline is quite "meh". It's the system that makes it work for them.

And btw, the player in our frontline who has been around for 10 years had better stats than anyone in Arsenal's team last season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arsenal is a very interesting example, man for man, with the exception of Saka, their frontline is quite "meh". It's the system that makes it work for them.

And btw, the player in our frontline who has been around for 10 years had better stats than anyone in Arsenal's team last season.

Arsenal fixed the defence though by buying a top draw Dm
He mangles their CBs look good and gives their attack the chance to play
They also don’t play very risky football

 

[Bullet]

I guess it depends how high the club rate Moore and if they do, when he will break into the first team.

Son a few more seasons, bring in Moore at 17 or 18 to be his back up/rotation.

Means we would need 1 or 2 seasons of cover there before he is ready. So either pay for a short term contract for someone, or go for loans.

Just listening to LWoS pod with John Wenham, who says Moore signed a contract at 15 and can't sign again til he is 17 in August at which point he should get the maximum contract allowed for a 17 year old which is 2 years and then when he is 18 he can sign a 5 year deal like Tyrese Hall et al.

None of us know what the plan is for Moore/Donley/Devine this coming season. Perhaps they will be loaned. Perhaps they will get 300 minutes each. Who knows.

 

[Raziel]

Just listening to LWoS pod with John Wenham, who says Moore signed a contract at 15 and can't sign again til he is 17 in August at which point he should get the maximum contract allowed for a 17 year old which is 2 years and then when he is 18 he can sign a 5 year deal like Tyrese Hall et al.

None of us know what the plan is for Moore/Donley/Devine this coming season. Perhaps they will be loaned. Perhaps they will get 300 minutes each. Who knows.

Devine, Moore, Donley, Abbott, Lankshear, Hall, Parrot, Veliz, Philips, Vuskovic, Bergvall, Scarlett

What is clear is we have more youth players on the verge of actually making an impact on first team than I can remember, and with Udogie & Sarr both having recently made the step up, precedent ..

I'd hope to see 1 this season, if I'd guess it's Bergvall with Hall being a longshot (due to his position).

But we are on the edge of very few senior players left (if PEH, Lo Celso & Davies go), so again, back to thread, Timo makes sense even as stop gap.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Devine, Moore, Donley, Abbott, Lankshear, Hall, Parrot, Veliz, Philips, Vuskovic, Bergvall, Scarlett

What is clear is we have more youth players on the verge of actually making an impact on first team than I can remember, and with Udogie & Sarr both having recently made the step up, precedent ..

I'd hope to see 1 this season, if I'd guess it's Bergvall with Hall being a longshot (due to his position).

But we are on the edge of very few senior players left (if PEH, Lo Celso & Davies go), so again, back to thread, Timo makes sense even as stop gap.

I’d guess donley may be the one to step up

 

[braineclipse]

Just listening to LWoS pod with John Wenham, who says Moore signed a contract at 15 and can't sign again til he is 17 in August at which point he should get the maximum contract allowed for a 17 year old which is 2 years and then when he is 18 he can sign a 5 year deal like Tyrese Hall et al.

None of us know what the plan is for Moore/Donley/Devine this coming season. Perhaps they will be loaned. Perhaps they will get 300 minutes each. Who knows.

A lot can happen between someone being young, talented, performing at youth level and them actually bent important players for a big team like us. But with this crop of players here we'd be crazy not to at least take that into account when planning how to build the squad for now and medium-long term future.

Absolutely we don't know what the plan is, but I think we're safe in assuming that there is a plan.

Devine, Moore, Donley, Abbott, Lankshear, Hall, Parrot, Veliz, Philips, Vuskovic, Bergvall, Scarlett

What is clear is we have more youth players on the verge of actually making an impact on first team than I can remember, and with Udogie & Sarr both having recently made the step up, precedent ..

I'd hope to see 1 this season, if I'd guess it's Bergvall with Hall being a longshot (due to his position).

But we are on the edge of very few senior players left (if PEH, Lo Celso & Davies go), so again, back to thread, Timo makes sense even as stop gap.

Spot on. And it's a great position to be in. With all the obstacles of players developing having numbers is really valuable.

I think it's good to be cautiously optimistic about these young players for now. Until they actually prove themselves at a higher level.

Preseason probably will give some of them at least a chance to make themselves part of Ange's plan for next season, but most of the thinking about the squad for next season is probably in place.

I agree with your speculation on Bergvall. He has experience of men's football and is fairly versatile so will probably be ahead of the pack.

I think most of the others you mentioned will get loan deals unless they really impress in preseason. Moore perhaps the exception due to his age as he may not need a loan deal yet.

And yes, Werner makes a lot of sense, assuming it's part of a solid overall strategy. Would love for one or more to stay if that's because Ange rates them highly enough to be part of the team.

 

[braineclipse]

I’d guess donley may be the one to step up

I think Donley will get a loan deal. Has only really excelled at youth level for a year. Was included by Ange in several squads, but used very sparingly even when we needed someone with his profile. I'm guessing he's seen as in need of a loan before he's ready to step up. But that's just a guess. Also based partly on the guess that Bergvall may stay for the first part of the season at least and they at least can play in some of the same positions. We also have Devine who plays similar positions who does have experience in the Championship and League One now. But I'm guessing he too will get another loan.

 

[Kandi1977]

I'm glad it's another loan. Still not convinced by him, but he causes issues down that left side.

At times I think he wasn't used enough. He always tries to get in behind the defender, but often he was ignored. When he was played into space, he alway caused trouble for the opposition.