• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I know what you mean about Fergie and Mourinho, who are (were?) both reactionary managers in the sense they have a plan B, but I do feel Pep has his ideas and it is down to the opposition to stop his team playing. I wan't trying to take away from your main point, just a curiosity I had.


Oh sure, no problem at all. I'm slightly talking off the top of my head about Pep anyway, cause I'm not a tactics guy. But yeah, I think we agree there are different ways to skin the tactical cat.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If he ever does something deserving of credit then I'll certainly have a tough choice to make.

1. Winning against Southampton twice - a feat only also achieved by Mourinho;
2. Convincing wins against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Sunderland;
3. Re-homing our most important player, Adebayor;
4. Introducing Bentaleb, our only central midfielder capable of passing and moving;
5. Emphasizing Eriksen's role in the team;
6. Recognising the impotence of Paulinho, Soldado and Townsend;
7. Recognising Dembele's strengths (dribbling and cutting in) and his weaknesses (perpetual dwelling) and making the most of them (playing him on the wing);
8. Putting the team before himself, in ignoring the transfer window and taking the time to critically assess the squad.

Call these simple things, but AVB failed to do any of them.

Sherwood should be given the chance to continue his good work.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

From a 'is this man the right man to take our club forward' perspective then I totally agree, they are wrapped in each other. For the record I don't think hes done enough to keep his job if someone better is available.

But when he does something right, I'll give him credit for doing something right rather than wheel out every possible excuse going so that he is not given any credit. Same way that when he does something wrong I'll criticise him in a way that reflects the level of wrongness rather than take something that is not completely within his control and make it out as if he is totally to blame for it.

That is only fair, I agree. And in that regard (this is something I've said before because I believe it) I will always be grateful that he got Nabil Bentaleb going asI believe this player is going to be great…I am hopeful he has not done this at the expense of Sandro! When he wasn't playing Paulinho I got it. I love Paulinho in concept (and in flashes - he is a fine player) but he was not doing it for us and he wasn't interested. But I am concerned that perhaps now Sandro is suffering, and I think we really cannot afford to lose him.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that is an interpretation of what TS seems to think.

The fact he wants his players to play with passion and commitment does not imply that he thinks passion and commitment is all that is needed, any more than a statement asserting that midfielders must do more than simply destroy implies that he does not want his midfielders defending. I mean, if Sandro developed Tom Carroll's passing ability, you'd take that, wouldn't you?.

I think Mourinho is of the same mind as TS. Look at Mata: good player but does not work hard enough. Lukaku: good player, but does not work hard enough.

Talking of Mourinho, his bold tactical decisions this week, so far as I could see, involved the standard "time is running out and we are losing so throw another forward on and lump it into the box" tactic. He went all Allardyce on us.

His other masterplan was to remind the forwards that the opponents now need to score, so perhaps a bit of defending is in order.

OK, I exaggerate for comic effect, and I hope that this reply has not come across as overly combative or at all sarcastic. If it has, I'll blame the press ...

Great post Mr Butter. Mourinho took off his dribblers, put on the big lads and used Terry and Cahill to launch it into the box.

Suddenly they scored, after hours of fan.nying around being clever with their billion pound dribblers. Funny that. I can foresee a future where teams go back to having two big lumps up front and putting it in the mixer!
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. Winning against Southampton twice - a feat only also achieved by Mourinho;
2. Convincing wins against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Sunderland;
3. Re-homing our most important player, Adebayor;
4. Introducing Bentaleb, our only central midfielder capable of passing and moving;
5. Emphasizing Eriksen's role in the team;
6. Recognising the impotence of Paulinho, Soldado and Townsend;
7. Recognising Dembele's strengths (dribbling and cutting in) and his weaknesses (perpetual dwelling) and making the most of them (playing him on the wing);
8. Putting the team before himself, in ignoring the transfer window and taking the time to critically assess the squad.

Call these simple things, but AVB failed to do any of them.

Sherwood should be given the chance to continue his good work.

1&2 are just wins, every manager wins games, outside of the Sunderland game, very few have been convincing
3. He absolutely deserves credit for
4. Bentaleb is a good find, but would still question his selection at times in front of others (specifically Sandro/Eriksen)
5. Don't agree, Sherwood's attitude for some time to Eriksen was mystifying, painfully obvious that Eriksen should be the first name in midfield, only in the last few games does it appear he's a certain pick for Sherwood.
6. Townsend & Paulinho wouldn't be on my first team, so don't agree there
7. Dembele see point above, flatters to deceive, not a first team pick for me.
8. Awful ****ing decision, anyone vaguely involved in the decision not to buy a LB in January should be shot ..

Not trying to discredit everything the guy does, but just don't agree with those in the most part.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You've asked this question twice now, so I'll do a TL/DR on it even though I'm going to get destroyed for it.

Honest answers.

1. Are we playing well? Do you know what his plan/system/formation is?

I think we are playing pretty well. But more than that, I think there are very interesting signs on the pitch.

There are two types of managers: System managers (Wenger, AVB, Rodgers) and flexible/pragmatic managers (Pep, Jose, Fergie). Both approaches can work, but personally I favour the latter. Flexible/pragmatic systems can be either exciting/attacking (Fergie/Pep), or boring/defensive (Jose). I think Sherwood is one of these flexible types, and I think he's clearly at the attacking end of that scale.

For example, he doesn't seem dogmatically obsessed with DM's like so many are nowadays. It was so dispiriting to see so many Spurs fans - Spurs fans! - losing the head the other night against Sunderland because we didn't have a DM against the worst team in the league at home. Sherwood decided there was no need for it - just put decent footballers like Chadli and Paulinho in front of the back 4 and that's enough of a shield whilst also giving us loads more go-forward. And that's exactly what happened. Horses for courses, not systems and DM's who aren't needed. Sherwood owned GG in the tactics stakes on Monday night.

Nobody else agrees with me, but in my very strong opinion the loss to Liverpool had nothing whatsoever to do with tactics. We'll never know what the tactical game would have been because we were buried after 1 minute and then again on 25 (we all now why.) But the thing for me is that Sherwood rejected the clichéd, lazy tact of playing counter-attack. It sounds so tempting and obvious a thing to do, but is actually a TERRIBLE tactic against Liverpool, esp. with our defence. So instead, the plan was to attack their crappy defence rather than inviting them to attack our crappy defence. I really liked Sherwood's rejection of the easy, obvious option, and I'm sorry we never saw how it worked. The point is he was thinking.

We were good against Arsenal (we were played off the park at their place) and against Chelsea for an hour (they were in flying form at the time). In 16 games, only against Norwich have we been truly, irredeemably hopeless. (There's a good argument that judging Sherwood at all on his first 4 or 5 games when he hardly had a spare day to work on the training pitch is unfair).

I think we've been...interesting. I am very tempted to see how these experiments might progress.


2. Does it look like the football is improving?

Eriksen - Serious step up in class/performance in recent weeks. And how many of us spotted that wide left was his best position? Certainly not me.
Chadli - Who thought he'd be effective in the middle? He's doing the job we all wish Dembele would do, and all thought Pauli would be doing. Who knew?
Soldado - Injury came at terrible time because he was so, so good against Southampton. I'm not saying that's definitely down to something Sherwood did, but it might be.
Ade - The salute said it all.
Bentaleb - How many of the people abusing Sherwood the other night for not playing Bentaleb had never even heard of Bentaleb 6 months ago? Fair's fair for crying out loud. What does Sherwood's spotting, nurturing and trusting this guy say about Sherwood? And what does it say that he had the nuts to believe in what he saw and stuck him straight into the first team? (Note to Scara: Bentaleb is not Glenn Whelan.)
Paulinho - Did anyone see him SMILING on the pitch the other night? He's been dire all season, but the other night he looked a bit more like the player he surely can be. Again, may not be down to Sherwood, but who knows?

What players have gone backwards?

Vertonghen - I honestly don't think this has anything to do with Sherwood - Jan wants out and has done for some time, and I think at this stage many Spurs fans want him out too. If Sherwood was talking about Jan when he said there were some he doesn't trust, how many Spurs fans would argue with that? I don't want him at the club any more (barring a big mea culpa/humble pie eating).
Capoue - I don't like how Sherwood has treated Capoue at all. It has been disrespectful of a guy who I hear is very good. Black mark against Sherwood for sure.
Sandro - I honestly don't think he's fit. He was magnificent at CB in Lisbon, but picked up a knock there and then was out of the team because of rotation. I don't think there's a Sherwood issue here at all. Sandro still Tweeting like a good thing and talking positively.

Overall, I see more positives about fulfilling potential and progressing then negatives.


3. Are we an exciting side?

It's a work in progress. More exciting than under AVB? I can't believe even Sherwood's harshest critics would deny we're more attacking and are creating more chances.

Thanks, appreciate the response, glad to see someone with more than a "give the guy a chance" view. Re the actual response ..

1. Interesting, I don't feel we have been playing that well (but that's been a bit of a theme for some time before TS).

Your view re formation/tactics is something I will need to think about, the idea of the norm being there is not set formation vs. it looking like he's just guessing it may have some merits. Not sure that level of flexibility early in establishing the team as a functioning unit is advisable. May just be a case of you giving more credit, vs. me giving less.

2. You highlight individual players, Ade/Bentaleb/Kane I give full credit to TS for, Eriksen I think is a class act just settling in, Soldado/Chadli somewhere in-between.

My question there is tied to the first point, can we get the team unit improving (vs. good individual plays), and specifically in two areas -> defensive stability, and the transition from possession in midfield -> goal opportunity.

3. We are more exciting than AVB's team (some of it wrong kind of exciting), but again I'm struggling to understand how we intend to "be" exciting. Guess I'm not seeing the connection between the flexibility of players/formation and a consistent method to creating goal scoring opportunities.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1&2 are just wins, every manager wins games, outside of the Sunderland game, very few have been convincing
3. He absolutely deserves credit for
4. Bentaleb is a good find, but would still question his selection at times in front of others (specifically Sandro/Eriksen)
5. Don't agree, Sherwood's attitude for some time to Eriksen was mystifying, painfully obvious that Eriksen should be the first name in midfield, only in the last few games does it appear he's a certain pick for Sherwood.
6. Townsend & Paulinho wouldn't be on my first team, so don't agree there
7. Dembele see point above, flatters to deceive, not a first team pick for me.
8. Awful ****ing decision, anyone vaguely involved in the decision not to buy a LB in January should be shot ..

Not trying to discredit everything the guy does, but just don't agree with those in the most part.

Surely you're agreeing with him on points 6 and partly on 7?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1&2 are just wins, every manager wins games, outside of the Sunderland game, very few have been convincing
3. He absolutely deserves credit for
4. Bentaleb is a good find, but would still question his selection at times in front of others (specifically Sandro/Eriksen)
5. Don't agree, Sherwood's attitude for some time to Eriksen was mystifying, painfully obvious that Eriksen should be the first name in midfield, only in the last few games does it appear he's a certain pick for Sherwood.
6. Townsend & Paulinho wouldn't be on my first team, so don't agree there
7. Dembele see point above, flatters to deceive, not a first team pick for me.
8. Awful ****ing decision, anyone vaguely involved in the decision not to buy a LB in January should be shot ..

Not trying to discredit everything the guy does, but just don't agree with those in the most part.

On 6&7 you wasn't picking the team, AVB was and they were on his team sheet all the time.

4. I still can't make up my mind on Sandro, some games he looks like a Brazilian international and other times he looks like a Sunday league clogger.

As for 8 you can only buy if players are available at the right price, do you splash out double just because the other team knows you're desperate?

And don't get me started on #1. If every manager wins games and it's just something that happens, then conversely another manager loses and its "just something that happens" so next time we lose and you **** off TS the answer is.................
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Great post Mr Butter. Mourinho took off his dribblers, put on the big lads and used Terry and Cahill to launch it into the box.

Suddenly they scored, after hours of fan.nying around being clever with their billion pound dribblers. Funny that. I can foresee a future where teams go back to having two big lumps up front and putting it in the mixer!

It will always be circular. When defenders become unaccustomed with a method of attack it will become effective and in vogue again.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bit juvenile, but this is doing the rounds on twitter at the moment

Bk3SoLHIQAAjaD_.jpg
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It will always be circular. When defenders become unaccustomed with a method of attack it will become effective and in vogue again.

pragmatism is an incredibly important trait in a manager

ultimately the only thing that matters is winning
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

On 6&7 you wasn't picking the team, AVB was and they were on his team sheet all the time.

4. I still can't make up my mind on Sandro, some games he looks like a Brazilian international and other times he looks like a Sunday league clogger.

As for 8 you can only buy if players are available at the right price, do you splash out double just because the other team knows you're desperate?

And don't get me started on #1. If every manager wins games and it's just something that happens, then conversely another manager loses and its "just something that happens" so next time we lose and you **** off TS the answer is.................

To answer you

On 6 & 7, it was should TS get credit for picking those players, I don't think so, don't think they help our midfield in my opinion.

Sandro is a brilliant player, he needs to play to find fitness and form

8. Yes, if we paid 2X price for a quality LB in January it would have been worth it, might have even be worth 3-6 points (and look where that would put us).

The difference in wins between TS & AVB in the same amount of games this season was +1 win & +1 loss for TS, hence saying he won "x" game was a moot point. If we played our opponents off the park (if 3 or 4 or more of the games was ala the Sunderland game), you could call that out, but we haven't and our GD is still 0 ...

Hence, if there is no significant difference in the wins column, or style/ease of wins, why call it out?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. Winning against Southampton twice - a feat only also achieved by Mourinho;
2. Convincing wins against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Sunderland;
3. Re-homing our most important player, Adebayor;
4. Introducing Bentaleb, our only central midfielder capable of passing and moving;
5. Emphasizing Eriksen's role in the team;
6. Recognising the impotence of Paulinho, Soldado and Townsend;
7. Recognising Dembele's strengths (dribbling and cutting in) and his weaknesses (perpetual dwelling) and making the most of them (playing him on the wing);
8. Putting the team before himself, in ignoring the transfer window and taking the time to critically assess the squad.

Call these simple things, but AVB failed to do any of them.

Sherwood should be given the chance to continue his good work.

1. Good stuff; But Soton are 8th and AVB did the double on them last season so your final statement that AVB failed to do it is bleep
2. Again good stuff. But is that what gets our managers hired now? Did either of those fill you with as much joy as when we beat Emirates Marketing Project, Manure or Arsenal last season btw?
3. Funny; I distinctly remember AVB being pilloried last season for PLAYING Adebayor...now he's our most important player...how times change:lol:
4. Nice player, but he's often played instead of other key players in the wrong games: vs Arsenal (instead of Capoue), vs Norwich (when strangely Eriksen didn't play), vs Liverpool (when BOTH Sandro and Dembele didn't start/or play). A lot of times I think TS may have actually f-ed up his development by throwing him to the wolves in these games.
5. Did he REALLY do this? He seemed to chop and change his starting position and NOT emphasizing his role. Example: taking him off vs Arsenal, which was madness given that we were bringing on Soldado; also remember Eriksen was injured from mid-Autumn during the latter days of AVB's reign.
6. He has dropped those three players at times, yes. Sometimes due to injury.
7. Really?? How many times has Dembele been played on the wing? I can think of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game and..er..that's it...any more since then??
8. Lol!!! The same man who 'put the team before himself' saying we 'had a great squad' then said after the Arsenal game 'only Ade and the goalie are world class players', plus other 'not me guv' rants? TS changed opinion much?? Anybody would have known that our LB was a problem position. A loan signing would not have hurt and TS would still have been 'putting the team before himself' as it would have been a short-term thing. Hold on a minute: you're saying TS is putting the club befire himself and is not shamelessly a self-publicist-not-me-give type??? LOL!!

You think Sherwood should be given the chance to 'continue his good work'?? Perhaps you've been smoking some good stuff :lol:
When is your next show?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Funny; I distinctly remember AVB being pilloried last season for PLAYING Adebayor...now he's our most important player...how times change

I have said this before but as fans we generally only judge a player by what we see him do or don't do during a game. I am now coming to the conclusion that Ade was so poor last season because of the system AVB instigated of setting up the whole attack for bale even to the detriment of other good attacking players. As opposed to Rodgers who has put in place a system which exploits Suarez fully but not to the detriment of other players.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Funny; I distinctly remember AVB being pilloried last season for PLAYING Adebayor...now he's our most important player...how times change

I have said this before but as fans we generally only judge a player by what we see him do or don't do during a game. I am now coming to the conclusion that Ade was so poor last season because of the system AVB instigated of setting up the whole attack for bale even to the detriment of other good attacking players. As opposed to Rodgers who has put in place a system which exploits Suarez fully but not to the detriment of other players.

This is interesting...others think the same but from a different angle in that it was to maximise Bale as he was the only one performing the attacking (i.e. scoring) duties consistently.

Tbf to AVB, Ade was being called **** because of the sitters he was constantly missing. I think many of the games that we were Bale-d :)p) out in, it became necessary because Ade (and Defoe) kept missing too many sitters; I can think of QPR away, West Ham away, Swansea away. I'm sure there were many others..
The fact that Ade was getting sitters to miss somewhat negates this idea that a whole attack was being set-up to the detriment of others...

Happy to discuss this point further though as it's interesting, especially in relation to Ade's current form since re-introduced by TS
 
Back