glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
Re: Temporary Tim
Don't worry, Tim will be managing us at Old Trafford and the Emirates soon.
Good times
Don't worry, Tim will be managing us at Old Trafford and the Emirates soon.
Good times
-
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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Re: Temporary Tim
You're not the only one. We lost our 3 best players and then struggled. We had a makeshift CB.
You're not the only one. We lost our 3 best players and then struggled. We had a makeshift CB.
Re: Temporary Tim
Didn't realise you still posted here - good to see you back.
Do you think you're pre-judging Sherwood?
Interested to get your (others' as well) views on the following:
1. Rightly or wrongly, for me anyway, there's a thought pattern which says if someone doesn't speak brilliant English, they might not be that bright and therefore might not be able to fully understand football to the extent necessary to be successful. Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho, for example, all strike me as intelligent people. Do you think this theory holds, and are you applying it to Sherwood?
2. Do the qualifications actually hold any weight? I wonder whether it's more of a formality, and adds little to knowledge acquired over a football career, both playing (and being successful) and some years 'behind the scenes'. Tactics, in my mind, are not anywhere near as complex as people make out. Like any industry, there's so much jargon, which adds very little. Pressing, for example, is really just working a bit harder. Do you really believe this is a credible argument against Sherwood?
3. I'd suggest the body of fans who thought the sacking was "ludicrous" is pretty small. I think the majority were disappointed, but only insofar as they (we) bought into AVB - the young, intelligent guy - the antithesis of loudmouth Redknapp - who could out manouevre the opposition, yet be humble and supportive enough to form a strong bond between the players. How much is this romantic notion impairing your ability to judge AVB objectively?
4. How much evidence is there of Sherwood's 'snidey' and manipulative nature? I think when assessing him with these ideas in mind, it's easy to look at his owl-like face and think "man, he looks shady". I wonder, in reality, whether this is the case at all, or if he's just being a bit blunt. The new players haven't settled (this shouldn't come as a shock to them and shouldn't really affect their mindsets, surely). It's not a dooming assessment, it's just quite honest, really.
5. Is it of no relevance that Levy backs Sherwood? Levy, for all his faults, is clearly an intelligent man. Part of intelligence is knowing your weaknesses, and I can't believe he would somehow be hoodwinked or manipulated into making foolish decisions. I imagine him seeking advice of the right people and not making snap decisions.
Didn't realise you still posted here - good to see you back.
Do you think you're pre-judging Sherwood?
Interested to get your (others' as well) views on the following:
1. Rightly or wrongly, for me anyway, there's a thought pattern which says if someone doesn't speak brilliant English, they might not be that bright and therefore might not be able to fully understand football to the extent necessary to be successful. Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho, for example, all strike me as intelligent people. Do you think this theory holds, and are you applying it to Sherwood?
2. Do the qualifications actually hold any weight? I wonder whether it's more of a formality, and adds little to knowledge acquired over a football career, both playing (and being successful) and some years 'behind the scenes'. Tactics, in my mind, are not anywhere near as complex as people make out. Like any industry, there's so much jargon, which adds very little. Pressing, for example, is really just working a bit harder. Do you really believe this is a credible argument against Sherwood?
3. I'd suggest the body of fans who thought the sacking was "ludicrous" is pretty small. I think the majority were disappointed, but only insofar as they (we) bought into AVB - the young, intelligent guy - the antithesis of loudmouth Redknapp - who could out manouevre the opposition, yet be humble and supportive enough to form a strong bond between the players. How much is this romantic notion impairing your ability to judge AVB objectively?
4. How much evidence is there of Sherwood's 'snidey' and manipulative nature? I think when assessing him with these ideas in mind, it's easy to look at his owl-like face and think "man, he looks shady". I wonder, in reality, whether this is the case at all, or if he's just being a bit blunt. The new players haven't settled (this shouldn't come as a shock to them and shouldn't really affect their mindsets, surely). It's not a dooming assessment, it's just quite honest, really.
5. Is it of no relevance that Levy backs Sherwood? Levy, for all his faults, is clearly an intelligent man. Part of intelligence is knowing your weaknesses, and I can't believe he would somehow be hoodwinked or manipulated into making foolish decisions. I imagine him seeking advice of the right people and not making snap decisions.
Craig_J
Mido
Re: Temporary Tim
I've gradually moved from being opposed to Sherwood to wanting to see him given a chance now, at least till the end of the season.
We've had Ramos in the past who seemed a fantastic manager considering the way in which he transformed Sevilla but that didn't work out. We had the treble winning FC Porto manager and that didn't work.
I think it would be nice for us to do something we've not done since Martin Jol and give someone from the backroom staff a chance. At least they've spent time around the club and got to see the players strengths and weaknesses in training and in every game.
Keep Sherwood in charge for another few games, if he does well give him a contract till the end of the season. At the end of the season we can then evaluate him and if he's not the right man for the job some managers may have stepped down from international teams at the World Cup. Seems to make much more sense than running off and bringing in a foreign manager then giving them another huge pay off when we decide it's still not going right for us.
Why would you want Mourinho when we've got Tim Sherwood?
I've gradually moved from being opposed to Sherwood to wanting to see him given a chance now, at least till the end of the season.
We've had Ramos in the past who seemed a fantastic manager considering the way in which he transformed Sevilla but that didn't work out. We had the treble winning FC Porto manager and that didn't work.
I think it would be nice for us to do something we've not done since Martin Jol and give someone from the backroom staff a chance. At least they've spent time around the club and got to see the players strengths and weaknesses in training and in every game.
Keep Sherwood in charge for another few games, if he does well give him a contract till the end of the season. At the end of the season we can then evaluate him and if he's not the right man for the job some managers may have stepped down from international teams at the World Cup. Seems to make much more sense than running off and bringing in a foreign manager then giving them another huge pay off when we decide it's still not going right for us.
Why would you want Mourinho when we've got Tim Sherwood?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Temporary Tim
I must say despite liking some of how Sherwood carries himself in the press conference, I've just finally sat down to watch the West Ham game and this famed 20 minutes just ****ed me off more than made me hopeful.
It was a complete style over substance performance. It looked nice, but you could see the players absolutely busting a gut from the very first minute - it's no surprise we failed to hold on to the lead. We chucked in crosses that were easily gobbled up and just had half chances or shots from outside. The crowd were more in to it because it was more fast paced but it didn't help us win the game.
This style only serves to reduce our advantages compared to a team like West Ham. The one thing they can do that doesn't require any skill is defend in numbers and block the ball. So trying to score against them in the manner we did when they are fully energized and concentrated meant we gave them the opportunity to level the playing field. I really, really do hope this isn't Sherwood's great idea going forward.
I must say despite liking some of how Sherwood carries himself in the press conference, I've just finally sat down to watch the West Ham game and this famed 20 minutes just ****ed me off more than made me hopeful.
It was a complete style over substance performance. It looked nice, but you could see the players absolutely busting a gut from the very first minute - it's no surprise we failed to hold on to the lead. We chucked in crosses that were easily gobbled up and just had half chances or shots from outside. The crowd were more in to it because it was more fast paced but it didn't help us win the game.
This style only serves to reduce our advantages compared to a team like West Ham. The one thing they can do that doesn't require any skill is defend in numbers and block the ball. So trying to score against them in the manner we did when they are fully energized and concentrated meant we gave them the opportunity to level the playing field. I really, really do hope this isn't Sherwood's great idea going forward.
Re: Temporary Tim
Tim's telling the truth, he's calling a spade a spade. It's true, the jury is still out on £100 million signings and he was frank with his comments on the so-called project AVB spouted about; like Tim said the project is to win games or lose your job, that's the true nature of the fickle game called football.
Tim's telling the truth, he's calling a spade a spade. It's true, the jury is still out on £100 million signings and he was frank with his comments on the so-called project AVB spouted about; like Tim said the project is to win games or lose your job, that's the true nature of the fickle game called football.
Daisuk
Dimitar Berbatov
Re: Temporary Tim
I agree with that too. I think people are going a bit overboard with the criticism of how we played. It'll take some time for the lads to get used to playing a different way when having played the AVB-way for so long.
I agree with that too. I think people are going a bit overboard with the criticism of how we played. It'll take some time for the lads to get used to playing a different way when having played the AVB-way for so long.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Re: Temporary Tim
It is unbelievable that he gets away with it without media calling him on it! But not really I suppose…friends in the proverbial Fleet Street and all that...
It is unbelievable that he gets away with it without media calling him on it! But not really I suppose…friends in the proverbial Fleet Street and all that...
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Re: Temporary Tim
Maybe not as much as me mate. I want to be very very, VERY wrong on this one...
Maybe not as much as me mate. I want to be very very, VERY wrong on this one...
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Re: Temporary Tim
That's a good question. Maybe start with his upbringing, then look at his influences etc?
That's a good question. Maybe start with his upbringing, then look at his influences etc?
punk_is_back`
Ilie Dumitrescu
Re: Temporary Tim
Much too open, devoid of any ideas other than putting the ball into the mixer, bypassing the midfield and playing at the same high tempo throughout. It may "LOOK" good, which is what I thought Sherwood was trying to do, but you have to find another way of playing as your players in a 442 are ridiculously exposed and this will show against better teams than the Spammers 2nd team.
Much too open, devoid of any ideas other than putting the ball into the mixer, bypassing the midfield and playing at the same high tempo throughout. It may "LOOK" good, which is what I thought Sherwood was trying to do, but you have to find another way of playing as your players in a 442 are ridiculously exposed and this will show against better teams than the Spammers 2nd team.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Temporary Tim
I agree.
Remember that most of the injuries that gave AVB problems in some of his last games were still there in addition the suspensions for Daws and Paulinho.
Sherwood only had a couple of days to put a team together, he was missing two of our four first choice central midfielders and another one of them had to be played at the back. And we had a team that were short on confidence coming off the 5-0 loss to Liverpool at home in a game where we apparently didn't have a single shot on goal. And a team that has struggled to score and create chances throughout the season.
Seems to me that going back to basics, get some quick wingers in there and "have a go" is about as good a plan as anything at that point. And most of the time we win that game although it could have gone either way.
I would be very sceptical if that was the plan of choosing going forward, but for this game I don't think that was bad.
The fact is that the result will always colour opinions post match. Had we gotten the 2-0 goal Sherwood would have been thanked for a positive influence, those who have been crying out for a 4-4-2 with quick wingers would have felt vindicated (even though we didn't create a ton of clear cut chances) and I think the majority of posters would have been at least alright with the tactics chosen. Had we gone with a more AVB like formation and style of play and lost the reaction would have been "why didn't he change it?" "why sack the manager and just do the same thing?" etc.
Both under AVB and under Sherwood I think we win that game (or progress after extra time) more often than not. But with both managers and both their tactics there's a real chance of us going out in that game all things considered. Conclusions thus shouldn't be drawn based on the outcome.
/rant
I agree.
Remember that most of the injuries that gave AVB problems in some of his last games were still there in addition the suspensions for Daws and Paulinho.
Sherwood only had a couple of days to put a team together, he was missing two of our four first choice central midfielders and another one of them had to be played at the back. And we had a team that were short on confidence coming off the 5-0 loss to Liverpool at home in a game where we apparently didn't have a single shot on goal. And a team that has struggled to score and create chances throughout the season.
Seems to me that going back to basics, get some quick wingers in there and "have a go" is about as good a plan as anything at that point. And most of the time we win that game although it could have gone either way.
I would be very sceptical if that was the plan of choosing going forward, but for this game I don't think that was bad.
The fact is that the result will always colour opinions post match. Had we gotten the 2-0 goal Sherwood would have been thanked for a positive influence, those who have been crying out for a 4-4-2 with quick wingers would have felt vindicated (even though we didn't create a ton of clear cut chances) and I think the majority of posters would have been at least alright with the tactics chosen. Had we gone with a more AVB like formation and style of play and lost the reaction would have been "why didn't he change it?" "why sack the manager and just do the same thing?" etc.
Both under AVB and under Sherwood I think we win that game (or progress after extra time) more often than not. But with both managers and both their tactics there's a real chance of us going out in that game all things considered. Conclusions thus shouldn't be drawn based on the outcome.
/rant
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Temporary Tim
We've played plenty of home games against smaller teams this season and last under AVB with his tactics where we have looked devoid of ideas, where we haven't created clear cut chances and even games where we've ended up losing.
You can't put up a dichotomy between what happened with Sherwood's tactics and what you think we as a club with this squad should do against a team like West Ham. At least I think that's unfair. He should be compared to what we were doing in the days, weeks and months before he took over.
(Yes you can argue that this West Ham team was rotated and thus even weaker than the West Ham team that beat us 3-0 and some of the other smaller teams that have gotten results and performances against us. This is counteracted by the injuries and suspensions to our team that Sherwood had to deal with though)
We've played plenty of home games against smaller teams this season and last under AVB with his tactics where we have looked devoid of ideas, where we haven't created clear cut chances and even games where we've ended up losing.
You can't put up a dichotomy between what happened with Sherwood's tactics and what you think we as a club with this squad should do against a team like West Ham. At least I think that's unfair. He should be compared to what we were doing in the days, weeks and months before he took over.
(Yes you can argue that this West Ham team was rotated and thus even weaker than the West Ham team that beat us 3-0 and some of the other smaller teams that have gotten results and performances against us. This is counteracted by the injuries and suspensions to our team that Sherwood had to deal with though)
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Re: Temporary Tim
I think a lot of you need to get your acts together and stop being so ****in dismissive about someone who a) is in temporary charge and b) appears to be highly regarded.
Seriously - it beggars belief. Do people not have anything better to do than come on a site and slate someone for the sake of it.
The guy is young, yes he will make mistakes and yes he wont be as eloquent as the previous Mr ****ing 'Dimensions' but he will prove his worth in the interim - whether he becomes permanent who the **** knows. Just give him a ****in break like.
ps - this is coming from someone who knows nothing of Tim, but im giving him a chance because thats what people do when you dont really know someone... but im sure majority of you are best mates with him or with his sisters dogs mother in laws brothers cousin...
rant over
I think a lot of you need to get your acts together and stop being so ****in dismissive about someone who a) is in temporary charge and b) appears to be highly regarded.
Seriously - it beggars belief. Do people not have anything better to do than come on a site and slate someone for the sake of it.
The guy is young, yes he will make mistakes and yes he wont be as eloquent as the previous Mr ****ing 'Dimensions' but he will prove his worth in the interim - whether he becomes permanent who the **** knows. Just give him a ****in break like.
ps - this is coming from someone who knows nothing of Tim, but im giving him a chance because thats what people do when you dont really know someone... but im sure majority of you are best mates with him or with his sisters dogs mother in laws brothers cousin...
rant over
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Re: Temporary Tim
Because nothing could be as low as the last few games.
Ps - I meant 'May' prove etc... apologies.
Because nothing could be as low as the last few games.
Ps - I meant 'May' prove etc... apologies.
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
Re: Temporary Tim
We'll see..we're going to Old Trafford and the Emirates within a few days of each other soon
We'll see..we're going to Old Trafford and the Emirates within a few days of each other soon
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Re: Temporary Tim
Totally agree with your post above and also that Sherwood will prove his worth - hopefully it be a positive worth.
At this point we all just.need to get behind the team.
Personally, I have NO IDEA what our formation should.be as we have so many similar players.
Although a 442 diamond would seem most suitable.
It wasn't working under avb, the players seemed tactically micromanaged and became devoid of ideas.
Football needs a formation and tactical basis from which the players can then use their instinct and ability. That latter seemed to disappear under avb
Totally agree with your post above and also that Sherwood will prove his worth - hopefully it be a positive worth.
At this point we all just.need to get behind the team.
Personally, I have NO IDEA what our formation should.be as we have so many similar players.
Although a 442 diamond would seem most suitable.
It wasn't working under avb, the players seemed tactically micromanaged and became devoid of ideas.
Football needs a formation and tactical basis from which the players can then use their instinct and ability. That latter seemed to disappear under avb