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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

They had not conceded a goal at home in 3 games. Manc were held to a draw was it? It wasn't going to be an easy game. We had lots of half chances to score. But it was not good enough. We looked tired and had the problem we've had all season - we rely on individuals and don't work as an effective team. Our passing and shape is lacking and has been for sometime.

Bang on the money. In all honesty performances up until Jan/Feb of last year were the same, all masked by a certain Welsh genius. We have only had a good tempo in a handful of games when Dembele "gets it" and passes and moves instead of dribbling down blind alleys.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Of those players, the only ones I'd consider to be particularly creative are Erikson, lamela and ade when he's on song. So yes, it is down to player issues as well as system issues. If you have a large number of players on the pitch who can't create, you're unlikely to have many opportunities.

Lennon bears the brunt of my frustrations because he's been failing in this regard for a number of years.

With you 100%. I have defended Lennon to the hilt for years, even insisted he is better than Walcott until a couple of years ago, now I look back at that statement I realise what nonsense I was speaking. Walcott is a converted striker so maybe it's an unfair comparison but he has definitely improved over the years and upped his goal return gradually. Lennon isn't any better than he was 2006. He still gets injured regularly, doesn't score enough or get into goal scoring positions enough and hasn't improved his crossing or consistency in 8 years.

I think he's one of the most overrated players amongst Spurs fans. Some people even insisted up until about January last season that Lennon had outplayed Bale.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

it always seems as if lennon is playing within himself. and i agree walcott is probably the better player, but i would say lennon has more to his game. and if lennon was at arsenal i would not be surprised if they could get more out of him. in a team that really plays to his strengths, i think lennon could be a 10+ goals per season right winger/forward.

but yes, ultimately no doubt he has stagnated since his breakthrough years in the mid-late 2000's.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Amazing, the last 3-5 posts talk about how we have failed to play as a team, and then at the same time beat on Lennon's individual performances.

Lennon is in my opinion not a player that changes the game all by himself (he's too easy for opposition to nullify by doubling up or cutting his supply off). He's best when he's used to stretch the width of the field, be an option to play (e.g. last year he did help Bale because we could play 2 balls to Bale, 1 to Lennon to stop the opposition from simply putting 3 or 4 people on Bale)

For 5 minutes yesterday when Soldado came on, and Lennon, Soldado and Ade actually were all targets we looked dangerous, we need our FBs/midfield to be able to cycle the ball quickly and forward to more than one option, in that scenario, Lennon is a good option and can be very effective. If you get the unit to play well, you will see the best of Lennon, if you expect Lennon to carry a misfiring team, wrong player.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Unless Liverpool decide to be generous, we won't get top four this season. Furthermore, I suspect that if Juande doesn't finish the job at the Lane, someone else will knock us out of the EL in a few weeks anyway. And if Tim is apparently in danger even if we do make top four (his own words), then he'll be dead and buried if we finish the season out of the CL spots and trophy-less.

The best option now is to see out the rest of the season with Tim at the helm before parting ways in the summer, should the likely eventuality of us failing miserably overall come to pass. In the summer, hire Van Gaal, if he's still interested. No more punts on inexperienced young 'uns: they will not get either the support they need to make their ambitious plans work or the respect they require to maintain control over the squad. Hell, they probably won't even get the performances they want from the players, because most of those we have at the moment are...mentally fragile, to say the least. Someone like Van Gaal would appeal to a large section of the fanbase purely by dint of his massive pool of accumulated experience and glittering trophy cabinet, and would survive at least some of the scrutiny directed at the likes of AVB and Tactical Tim. Additionally, his no-nonsense attitude and disciplinarian attitude would undoubtedly prove popular with both the supporters and (if they're wise) the board, who have grown accustomed to seeing either arm-around-the-shoulder approaches that produce moments of brilliance but mainly mental breakdowns, or AVB's group-based management approach that allowed individual players to take cover behind the failure of the team as a whole and probably created a team too reluctant to take responsibility when it matters. Van Gaal would have none of that, and though a few players may complain or even agitate to leave, I suspect at this point that a dose of hard steel would do these rather soft lads the world of good in the long-run. Finally, Van Gaal would undoubtedly garner respect (if not friendliness) from the players themselves, by dint of the clubs he's managed and again, the things he's won, which should make implementing his philosophy easier than at, say, Bayern, where he faced down players that had won a lot of things themselves and thus were reluctant to fully adapt to his methods.

Appoint an experienced, no-nonsense, historically successful manager. Let Lloris and Verts leave, if they want to (let Baldini earn his damn corn and find replacements from Argentina or Serie A). Give Van Gaal (or A.N.Other, if it comes to it) the money he needs: no more scraping around the barrel trying to save five pounds on deadline day. Our net spend has been ridiculously low over the past few seasons, and this rather large sponsorship deal with AIA will only add to the amount of money lying around waiting to be spent. If that means delaying our eternally delayed stadium a bit more, so be it. Prioritize some on-field success, else we'll never get the fanbase and exposure necessary to consistently fill the stadium long-term anyway. Give him a long contract: four years, at least. And no more chopping and changing, if you please: bit hypocritical considering my advocacy of the departure of both AVB and Tactical Tim, but if we do end up getting Van Gaal, we'll have landed a man that has won almost everything there is to be won in Europe, and you don't win all that by being bad at what you're doing. His track record is solid: give him time to add to it. Sell some of the less determined players if there are steelier alternatives available, and for GHod's sake buy a beast of a striker that doesn't go walkabout like Ade, purely to give us the variation across the front-line that we've desperately been waiting for. And above all, give Van Gaal (or Prandelli, or any other experienced bloke we appoint) a lot of slack: if he alienates Lennon, or Dawson, or if the players complain about his methods to the press, or if he rubs the fans up the wrong way, let all that slide. We've spent long enough being prickly about the missteps of our coaches, from Redknapp's belittling of the fanbase to AVB's freezing out of Ade. It's time to give a CL winning manager like Van Gaal all the leeway he needs to prude out the weaknesses in the squad and replace them with steel. Whatever it takes.

Does all that seem impossible? Very probably it does. But we've undone all the progress we made in the Redknapp years by appointing first AVB and then Tim, by selling first Modric and then Bale, by spending the money on first tactically inconsistent players like Siggy and Dempsey and then mentally suspect players like Lamela and Soldado, by scraping and saving for a stadium that looks farther away than ever and then spending on all the wrong buys, by focusing on Europe but then never getting anywhere in it and suffering in the league in a result.

We've Spursed up again. Only big decisions can stop the rot. We need to do the impossible.

Nothing else will do. The time for half-measures and 'let's support the man in charge' is over. Tim has three months, and no more: without a track record to speak of, expecting more than that is foolhardy. Get into the CL and become a Van Gaal: win the EL and become a Van Gaal. If you can't do either, step aside and let the actual man step in.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Unless Liverpool decide to be generous, we won't get top four this season. Furthermore, I suspect that if Juande doesn't finish the job at the Lane, someone else will knock us out of the EL in a few weeks anyway. And if Tim is apparently in danger even if we do make top four (his own words), then he'll be dead and buried if we finish the season out of the CL spots and trophy-less.

The best option now is to see out the rest of the season with Tim at the helm before parting ways in the summer, should the likely eventuality of us failing miserably overall come to pass. In the summer, hire Van Gaal, if he's still interested. No more punts on inexperienced young 'uns: they will not get either the support they need to make their ambitious plans work or the respect they require to maintain control over the squad. Hell, they probably won't even get the performances they want from the players, because most of those we have at the moment are...mentally fragile, to say the least. Someone like Van Gaal would appeal to a large section of the fanbase purely by dint of his massive pool of accumulated experience and glittering trophy cabinet, and would survive at least some of the scrutiny directed at the likes of AVB and Tactical Tim. Additionally, his no-nonsense attitude and disciplinarian attitude would undoubtedly prove popular with both the supporters and (if they're wise) the board, who have grown accustomed to seeing either arm-around-the-shoulder approaches that produce moments of brilliance but mainly mental breakdowns, or AVB's group-based management approach that allowed individual players to take cover behind the failure of the team as a whole and probably created a team too reluctant to take responsibility when it matters. Van Gaal would have none of that, and though a few players may complain or even agitate to leave, I suspect at this point that a dose of hard steel would do these rather soft lads the world of good in the long-run. Finally, Van Gaal would undoubtedly garner respect (if not friendliness) from the players themselves, by dint of the clubs he's managed and again, the things he's won, which should make implementing his philosophy easier than at, say, Bayern, where he faced down players that had won a lot of things themselves and thus were reluctant to fully adapt to his methods.

Appoint an experienced, no-nonsense, historically successful manager. Let Lloris and Verts leave, if they want to (let Baldini earn his damn corn and find replacements from Argentina or Serie A). Give Van Gaal (or A.N.Other, if it comes to it) the money he needs: no more scraping around the barrel trying to save five pounds on deadline day. Our net spend has been ridiculously low over the past few seasons, and this rather large sponsorship deal with AIA will only add to the amount of money lying around waiting to be spent. If that means delaying our eternally delayed stadium a bit more, so be it. Prioritize some on-field success, else we'll never get the fanbase and exposure necessary to consistently fill the stadium long-term anyway. Give him a long contract: four years, at least. And no more chopping and changing, if you please: bit hypocritical considering my advocacy of the departure of both AVB and Tactical Tim, but if we do end up getting Van Gaal, we'll have landed a man that has won almost everything there is to be won in Europe, and you don't win all that by being bad at what you're doing. His track record is solid: give him time to add to it. Sell some of the less determined players if there are steelier alternatives available, and for GHod's sake buy a beast of a striker that doesn't go walkabout like Ade, purely to give us the variation across the front-line that we've desperately been waiting for. And above all, give Van Gaal (or Prandelli, or any other experienced bloke we appoint) a lot of slack: if he alienates Lennon, or Dawson, or if the players complain about his methods to the press, or if he rubs the fans up the wrong way, let all that slide. We've spent long enough being prickly about the missteps of our coaches, from Redknapp's belittling of the fanbase to AVB's freezing out of Ade. It's time to give a CL winning manager like Van Gaal all the leeway he needs to prude out the weaknesses in the squad and replace them with steel. Whatever it takes.

Does all that seem impossible? Very probably it does. But we've undone all the progress we made in the Redknapp years by appointing first AVB and then Tim, by selling first Modric and then Bale, by spending the money on first tactically inconsistent players like Siggy and Dempsey and then mentally suspect players like Lamela and Soldado, by scraping and saving for a stadium that looks farther away than ever and then spending on all the wrong buys, by focusing on Europe but then never getting anywhere in it and suffering in the league in a result.

We've Spursed up again. Only big decisions can stop the rot. We need to do the impossible.

Nothing else will do. The time for half-measures and 'let's support the man in charge' is over. Tim has three months, and no more: without a track record to speak of, expecting more than that is foolhardy. Get into the CL and become a Van Gaal: win the EL and become a Van Gaal. If you can't do either, step aside and let the actual man step in.

=D>
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Unless Liverpool decide to be generous, we won't get top four this season. Furthermore, I suspect that if Juande doesn't finish the job at the Lane, someone else will knock us out of the EL in a few weeks anyway. And if Tim is apparently in danger even if we do make top four (his own words), then he'll be dead and buried if we finish the season out of the CL spots and trophy-less.

The best option now is to see out the rest of the season with Tim at the helm before parting ways in the summer, should the likely eventuality of us failing miserably overall come to pass. In the summer, hire Van Gaal, if he's still interested. No more punts on inexperienced young 'uns: they will not get either the support they need to make their ambitious plans work or the respect they require to maintain control over the squad. Hell, they probably won't even get the performances they want from the players, because most of those we have at the moment are...mentally fragile, to say the least. Someone like Van Gaal would appeal to a large section of the fanbase purely by dint of his massive pool of accumulated experience and glittering trophy cabinet, and would survive at least some of the scrutiny directed at the likes of AVB and Tactical Tim. Additionally, his no-nonsense attitude and disciplinarian attitude would undoubtedly prove popular with both the supporters and (if they're wise) the board, who have grown accustomed to seeing either arm-around-the-shoulder approaches that produce moments of brilliance but mainly mental breakdowns, or AVB's group-based management approach that allowed individual players to take cover behind the failure of the team as a whole and probably created a team too reluctant to take responsibility when it matters. Van Gaal would have none of that, and though a few players may complain or even agitate to leave, I suspect at this point that a dose of hard steel would do these rather soft lads the world of good in the long-run. Finally, Van Gaal would undoubtedly garner respect (if not friendliness) from the players themselves, by dint of the clubs he's managed and again, the things he's won, which should make implementing his philosophy easier than at, say, Bayern, where he faced down players that had won a lot of things themselves and thus were reluctant to fully adapt to his methods.

Appoint an experienced, no-nonsense, historically successful manager. Let Lloris and Verts leave, if they want to (let Baldini earn his damn corn and find replacements from Argentina or Serie A). Give Van Gaal (or A.N.Other, if it comes to it) the money he needs: no more scraping around the barrel trying to save five pounds on deadline day. Our net spend has been ridiculously low over the past few seasons, and this rather large sponsorship deal with AIA will only add to the amount of money lying around waiting to be spent. If that means delaying our eternally delayed stadium a bit more, so be it. Prioritize some on-field success, else we'll never get the fanbase and exposure necessary to consistently fill the stadium long-term anyway. Give him a long contract: four years, at least. And no more chopping and changing, if you please: bit hypocritical considering my advocacy of the departure of both AVB and Tactical Tim, but if we do end up getting Van Gaal, we'll have landed a man that has won almost everything there is to be won in Europe, and you don't win all that by being bad at what you're doing. His track record is solid: give him time to add to it. Sell some of the less determined players if there are steelier alternatives available, and for GHod's sake buy a beast of a striker that doesn't go walkabout like Ade, purely to give us the variation across the front-line that we've desperately been waiting for. And above all, give Van Gaal (or Prandelli, or any other experienced bloke we appoint) a lot of slack: if he alienates Lennon, or Dawson, or if the players complain about his methods to the press, or if he rubs the fans up the wrong way, let all that slide. We've spent long enough being prickly about the missteps of our coaches, from Redknapp's belittling of the fanbase to AVB's freezing out of Ade. It's time to give a CL winning manager like Van Gaal all the leeway he needs to prude out the weaknesses in the squad and replace them with steel. Whatever it takes.

Does all that seem impossible? Very probably it does. But we've undone all the progress we made in the Redknapp years by appointing first AVB and then Tim, by selling first Modric and then Bale, by spending the money on first tactically inconsistent players like Siggy and Dempsey and then mentally suspect players like Lamela and Soldado, by scraping and saving for a stadium that looks farther away than ever and then spending on all the wrong buys, by focusing on Europe but then never getting anywhere in it and suffering in the league in a result.

We've Spursed up again. Only big decisions can stop the rot. We need to do the impossible.

Nothing else will do. The time for half-measures and 'let's support the man in charge' is over. Tim has three months, and no more: without a track record to speak of, expecting more than that is foolhardy. Get into the CL and become a Van Gaal: win the EL and become a Van Gaal. If you can't do either, step aside and let the actual man step in.

Dubai…you're back on top form with this mate, a really erudite, smart and well-rationalized piece. Thank you. Reading it felt like organizing my own jumbled thought-pattern…I think thanks to your words, I've figured out why this Sunday really flipped my switch; I believe I've been in denial about some of the players we have and what their commitment is to our club. I think the likes of Verts & Dembele have let both AVB and Sherwood down.These are powerful, strong and supremely talented players yet they refuse to lead. Frankly, the pair of them can leave IMO…either that, or we squeeze every last drop out of them as we need them i.e. go to left-back, play there and shut the f**k up Vertonghen…EDIT: I started this reply so calmly...:(
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

OK so yesterday was painful to watch -a culmination of all that has been bad about the Sherwood Era in one game. Sherwood has to take his fair share of the blame, as do the players.

Say what you might about AVB's style - it was too slow and methodical for this league. Sherwood must be applauded for trying to make the team more attack minded, albeit at the expense of being tight at the back.

Having proved you can succeed playing in an anti avb way, what I had hoped was we would get a bit more of a balanced approach from TS. I actually think in the 'wonky 442' we were playing initially we had the best formation to take us forward - one proper winger down one side, Erikssen down the other cutting in. what seems to have happened is that since Pauli has come back from injury, Tim has moved away from two in the centre to three to accommodate Pauli, Bentaleb and Capoue until he got injured.

I can't understand that central three - someone needs to sit in front of the def because time and again we have looked vulnerable there but Tim et al jsut can't accet this. Naturally that should be Sandro or Capoue. Dembele has to play in the centre for me driving forward as the box to box player - forget this mucking about on the wing. He and Sandro were are most effective CM partnership since Modric left, so let's get him back in there. Suck it up if you think you should be playing further forward - you've not proved anythin like as dangerous playing behind the striker, and others can play that role better than you.

If we have to accommodate Pauli then he has to be the one just behind the striker for me, though i would go with Eriksen to provide some spark of intelligence and mix it up. I don't see how Bentaleb fits in, except to play where Dembele should be playing - he's a great little passer / recycler of the ball but he doesn't have the physicality required of a pure holder/ destroyer that we are crying out for, or the playmaking ability to slice defences open with a cheeky wee pass.

I think this is the Sherwood 'nail in the coffin' - he did really well to bring him in and get the team passing quicker, but long term he is not yet the answer for a team pushing for CL qualification. Sherwood's trying to prove a point, and he has to a certain extent but he needs to go back to basics.

As a team we have never played well without some natural width being offered, so this insistence on our one proper winger, Lennon, cutting inside all the time, congesting the middle of the park is madness. AVB had this fixation as well, so it's not just Sherwoods issue, but we are definitely more dangerous when we can stretch teams.

What surprised me more than anything was that Tim did not go 442 yesterday against Norwich when he's already shown that 442 works. I don't buy that he was worried about the midfield being overrun - this is a Norwich team that have struggled for the last two months to get result - a well organised team I grant you - but we should have been putting them more on the back foot -Ade was lost most of the game without any effective support from anyone.

Crunch time for Tim now- we need to get a result againt Dnipro and then Cardiff otherwise we can pretty much say goodbye to the rest of the season - tall order for a not-so-experienced manager, with a team suffering from injuries and a lack of confidence / fight.

Spot on.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There is a lot of sense written in these last few posts by Dubai, Steff and superfeisty IMO.

At the end of the day (how I hate that expression), it is down primarily to the players. Ours have overwhelmingly underperformed.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Absolutely stunning that the season that started with 'selling Elvis and buying the Beatles' could filter out in a couple of weeks to absolutely nothing, trophyless and perhaps not even finishing in the top 5 for the first time in years.

Stunning, stunningly poor decisions from everyone involved with the club this year (except AVB because he is infallible ;-) ).

Seriously though, this could end up being like 09/10 where we put together some fantastic results to get 4th against the odds, but it just feels like the club is going absolutely nowhere, again.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

My view, is he should have had a back up plan to AVB, that was not TS ..

The problem with TS is what happens if he loses the next two games, out of Europe and likely out of European spots, do you fire him then? then how much chaos have you caused.

The issue now is you have an interim manager without the interim title and it's starting to show.

If we were to lose our next two games, i.e. exit the EL and slip even further back from the top four, then I think we could well see a further fall in the level of our performances. With games remaining against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and West Ham , it could well be a horror ending to our season :frown:
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Seriously though, this could end up being like 09/10 where we put together some fantastic results to get 4th against the odds, but it just feels like the club is going absolutely nowhere, again.

I'd love for this to be the case but theres just no sign whatsever. Even when we have been picking up points recently i just haven't felt like there has been any momentum getting behind us. Its been scraping and limping over the line.

It says it all when, a number of our players have one AGAIN come out in the media complaining that as a team our performances haven't been up to standard, it was a terrible performance against Norwich, we need to do better when they themselves are some of the worst offenders and have been for a while. It's like we have a squad who can see the obvious problems, have no problem whinging about it but do absolutely nothing to sort things on the pitch. We just see repeated half assed performances. I'm hoping some on the pitch will take some responsibility for what has been happening but i'm not going to hold my breath.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

With you 100%. I have defended Lennon to the hilt for years, even insisted he is better than Walcott until a couple of years ago, now I look back at that statement I realise what nonsense I was speaking. Walcott is a converted striker so maybe it's an unfair comparison but he has definitely improved over the years and upped his goal return gradually. Lennon isn't any better than he was 2006. He still gets injured regularly, doesn't score enough or get into goal scoring positions enough and hasn't improved his crossing or consistency in 8 years.

I think he's one of the most overrated players amongst Spurs fans. Some people even insisted up until about January last season that Lennon had outplayed Bale.

it always seems as if lennon is playing within himself. and i agree walcott is probably the better player, but i would say lennon has more to his game. and if lennon was at arsenal i would not be surprised if they could get more out of him. in a team that really plays to his strengths, i think lennon could be a 10+ goals per season right winger/forward.

but yes, ultimately no doubt he has stagnated since his breakthrough years in the mid-late 2000's.


Lennon hasn't got a shot on him , that's my gripe with him . In his entire career has he ever scored a goal like Chadli did recently up at Saudi Sportswashing Machine ? As far as I'm concerned , a winger should have a decent shot in his locker.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Surely a combination of the two all along?

I agree; however it's the balance of blame apportioned to the manager that leads to a sacking, no?

Should TS be fired for players who have underperformed/bad attitudes?
Some will ask the same about AVB, Redknapp and many of our recent managers (i.e. since 2003/04 when we were undeniably complete dross).
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sent to me by a Gooner...whilst thinking of retalitation you have to laugh...sort of...

(P.S. - If anyone can make this more viewable, please go ahead...perhaps some light relief..)

Sherwoods.JPG
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree; however it's the balance of blame apportioned to the manager that leads to a sacking, no?

Should TS be fired for players who have underperformed/bad attitudes?
Some will ask the same about AVB, Redknapp and many of our recent managers (i.e. since 2003/04 when we were undeniably complete dross).

Should TS be fired?

I don't think Sherwood can be judged by the same standards as all our other managers. Had we appointed anyone with a serious resume on a 3-4 years contract in December it would be close to ridiculous to get rid in the summer after some indifferent, but decent results and performances.

I believe Sherwood got the job because of the exceptional circumstances we were in, he seems to understand that for him to keep the job past the summer will require some exceptional results and performances. What would be deemed acceptable for one with a proven track record, someone we tried hard for some time to bring in won't necessarily be acceptable for him to keep his job.

Because come the summer the only relevant question for the club on the managerial decision is "who do we think will most likely be best for the club?" If the answer is not-Sherwood then I don't think Sherwood or anyone can complain about it being unfair unless he delivers exceptional results and performances. And even if he or anyone does complain the relevant question wasn't ever "is this fair on Sherwood?"

The usual "we have to give this person a chance, after all we hired him for a reason" isn't really a valid rationale for keeping someone you only hired because of some specific circumstances and severely limited options.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Was it the players fault all along then, or just now?
Serious question

I asked a similar question earlier in the thread. The shining example for me is that a group of professional footballers should not be conceding 11 goals in two games against anyone, no matter who the opposition is, no-matter what the system is, no-matter who their manager is. But this group managed to do it.

Obviously the manager is not completely absolved of blame (I include AVB and Sherwood in that), but it can't be denied that the players have been a let down this year (based on more than just the example above).
 
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