Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[braineclipse]

It’s what happens when players have so few good passing options on….

Absolutely. Along with a safety first, defensive priority first mindset.

 

[parj]

The amount of individual misstakes in this games are more than I have ever seen on this level.
Some examples:
I don't think Frank tells Porro to pass straight to Chelsea players or not being able to hit ONE cross to a Spurs player.
I don't think Frank tells Spence to be nonchalant and lose the ball, and then tells Xavi to make a poor 5m pass and then tell VdV to pass straight on to a Chelsea player.
I don't think Frank tells Vicario to waste 30 sec on overtime and then to pass it to Spence who pass it back to Vicario who then in panic hits it straight to the keeper.
...
Like we set up 4-2-3-1 nothing strange and the players should be good enough to create ONE big chance even without a coach.

I really think we have a bunch of doughnuts for players, especially in the front line where we have wasted an enormous amount of money.
People keep asking for Sarr to start for Xavi to start for Odobert to start.... But it is the same, they are not good enough. They might become good players but they are not ready for a PL team now that wants to compete!

Honestly the real elite players we have to select from today are Romero, VDV, Palhinha and Kudus I do rate Maddison but he is good only for like 20 games a season, Deki adds a bit of grit and creativity we could need, but can be out of form for long periods as well...

Sorry this isn't aimed at you, but more frustration at what we actually saw from Tottenham.

Most of those mistakes are lack of options

Is there a player in the world that consistently gets a 100% cross success rate? Is there a player in the world that consistently gets 100% success rate on forward passes? Maybe if players are moving forward quicker instead of sitting back more of those passes will get to attacking players.

Granted the xavi pass was bad.

Vicario wasting time getting the ball forward is the exact thing you just asked for with your complaint about Porro - wasted balls forward.

But now let's look at one simple fact... João Pedro should have had a hat trick ... They were 1 on 1 chances. Gittens should have scored. Without that mistake, we should have lost 4-0.

We did not look like scoring at all. Kudus had all our shots. Palinha is awful at passing the ball forward. Bentancur can play the ball forward but just wasn't looking for those options. VDV didn't even look to carry the ball.

Sarr was more attacking but couldn't get the ball quick enough, Xavi would get the ball when marked. Kudus and Muani were dropping into our half to defend and then when we got the ball we had no options on space.

 

[DubSpur]

What has happened to his tactical flexibility? At Brentford he set up his team for the opposition. The only time he has done that with us is against PSG. Now it's the same crap negative football no matter who the opposition is. I'd accept the boring negative safety first football against Liverpool or Arsenal, but doing it against every team, especially at home, isn't going to get results and is going to end up in a toxic atmosphere again.

He really needs to make changes and the first thing is to get rid of the double pivot. It's one thing having a double pivot if you have at least one of them that is a top class passer, but two that are defensive and can't/won't pass forward is killing us.

 

[Grays_1890]

I don’t remember us having much of a style for most of last season, other than an inability to defend. We were a terrible watch for 90% of our games.

It’s going to take to time. Full stop.

Exactly this, we can go out and get Glasner or Aldoni but its going to take longer than a dozen games for them. Going from Semenyo, Kluivert and the Brazilian lad who has abit about him to Tel, Kudus and the Brazilian lad with nothing about him would expose any manager, same for Glasner who has alot more talent at his disposal in certain areas (I certainly take Mateta, Sarr and Pina over what we have also.

Its ok wanting the managers they have turned out to be now, but both clubs had to take some growing pains with each and some times where wins were hard to come by, we are not famous for our patience here.

The fact the wolves are at the door so early makes light of where the issues currently are at Spurs.

 

[harr1984]

Exactly this, we can go out and get Glasner or Aldoni but its going to take longer than a dozen games for them. Going from Semenyo, Kluivert and the Brazilian lad who has abit about him to Tel, Kudus and the Brazilian lad with nothing about him would expose any manager, same for Glasner who has alot more talent at his disposal in certain areas (I certainly take Mateta, Sarr and Pina over what we have also.

Its ok wanting the managers they have turned out to be now, but both clubs had to take some growing pains with each and some times where wins were hard to come by, we are not famous for our patience here.

The fact the wolves are at the door so early makes light of where the issues currently are at Spurs.

Nope, no one is asking or expecting Frank to have us playing anywhere close to perfect football already. What they are expecting is for our players to know how to make a forward pass and be capable of something more than just punting it long. Sideways, sideways, back, back, long ball - Rinse and repeat. After fifteen games it's fair to expect more than that, our players aren't superstars but they are better than what they are showing....

 

[Grays_1890]

Nope, no one is asking or expecting Frank to have us playing anywhere close to perfect football already. What they are expecting is for our players to know how to make a forward pass and be capable of something more than just punting it long. Sideways, sideways, back, back, long ball - Rinse and repeat. After fifteen games it's fair to expect more than that, our players aren't superstars but they are better than what they are showing....

He is eeking out points from a side that is decimated with injury and has a distinct lack of quality in attacking areas.

Others might be able to do that also, but if you think they would do so playing some beautiful game whilst dealt with the same hand then I think you have hit your head on a rock

We are 10 games into a first PL season for Frank at Spurs.............I think the reactions are slightly embarrassing TBH

 

[tommysvr]

Exactly this, we can go out and get Glasner or Aldoni but its going to take longer than a dozen games for them. Going from Semenyo, Kluivert and the Brazilian lad who has abit about him to Tel, Kudus and the Brazilian lad with nothing about him would expose any manager, same for Glasner who has alot more talent at his disposal in certain areas (I certainly take Mateta, Sarr and Pina over what we have also.

Its ok wanting the managers they have turned out to be now, but both clubs had to take some growing pains with each and some times where wins were hard to come by, we are not famous for our patience here.

The fact the wolves are at the door so early makes light of where the issues currently are at Spurs.

One of the complaints about Ange / hopes for the new manager was a “better than the sum of its parts” team. That’s what Bournemouth, Palace etc are. IMO that only comes with time and eased expectations. Our expectations are rightly higher than those clubs, but we just do not give anything time to build. Lower the short term expectations in view of reaching where we actually want to be.

I was not in favour of Thomas Frank at all but I find it absolutely crazy he’s already under pressure. I see the negative Nuno comparisons coming out, where last season there was a lot of longing for what Nuno could give us!

We don’t have an identity, we don’t know what we are and we will be tripping over ourselves until the end of time, unless we finally ride out the brick parts and give a manager real time to build. Real time is not 18-24 months.

 

[Lemonade Money]

When you charge fans that much money, I think they're entitled to expect some form of entertainment.

Well in that case they are supporting the wrong team, or probably the wrong sport. Maybe flit between supporting whatever team is playing well that season.

You do realise they are also entitled to not pay the money? If Spurs supporters really expect to be entertained (and by that you actually mean win) every match, they are either new, or idiots.

 

[Grays_1890]

One of the complaints about Ange / hopes for the new manager was a “better than the sum of its parts” team. That’s what Bournemouth, Palace etc are. IMO that only comes with time and eased expectations. Our expectations are rightly higher than those clubs, but we just do not give anything time to build. Lower the short term expectations in view of reaching where we actually want to be.

I was not in favour of Thomas Frank at all but I find it absolutely crazy he’s already under pressure. I see the negative Nuno comparisons coming out, where last season there was a lot of longing for what Nuno could give us!

We don’t have an identity, we don’t know what we are and we will be tripping over ourselves until the end of time, unless we finally ride out the brick parts and give a manager real time to build. Real time is not 18-24 months.

The issue here though and I refuse to lose a day on Ange v Frank and have avoided it, but Frank is eeking out points, where as Ange was less adept at that faced with the same.

I would also think and like to think fans of the club would give Ange if he came back under a different name, for arguments sake, more than 10 games

I would like to think that of any manager. The idea anyone comes in and does masses more in such a short time does not bode well for any manager and I am not talking just Frank there, I am talking all the flavour of the months being mentioned.

That facts are that Spurs as a club and a management project is a 2 year minimum before you see the real fruits of any managers labour

The issue we have at this club, is we are pining for and want managers based on what they have achieved after 2 or 3 years at their respective clubs and expect them to somehow just white label it at Spurs without any bumps or grazes along the road. I find it bemusing

 

[Lemonade Money]

Absolutely. Along with a risk first, offensive priority first mindset.

That's what we had last year. Make your mind up.

 

[DeanoAustin]

One of the complaints about Ange / hopes for the new manager was a “better than the sum of its parts” team. That’s what Bournemouth, Palace etc are. IMO that only comes with time and eased expectations. Our expectations are rightly higher than those clubs, but we just do not give anything time to build. Lower the short term expectations in view of reaching where we actually want to be.

I was not in favour of Thomas Frank at all but I find it absolutely crazy he’s already under pressure. I see the negative Nuno comparisons coming out, where last season there was a lot of longing for what Nuno could give us!

We don’t have an identity, we don’t know what we are and we will be tripping over ourselves until the end of time, unless we finally ride out the brick parts and give a manager real time to build. Real time is not 18-24 months.

Frank absolutely deserves this season and if he finishes top half, next season too. That’s my minimum expectation.

The hope is that he’s making us more solid and will build attacking play on top of that. Deki and Solanke coming back hopefully help that to happen. That’s the hope and he deserves time and space to make that happen.

The worry is that I don’t even see those players having much impact if the tactics don’t change. We don’t attack in any numbers and we don’t have many options in the other half. Personnel won’t affect that much. That’s the worry for me.

 

[tommysvr]

Frank absolutely deserves this season and if he finishes top half, next season too. That’s my minimum expectation.

The hope is that he’s making us more solid and will build attacking play on top of that. Deki and Solanke coming back hopefully help that to happen. That’s the hope and he deserves time and space to make that happen.

The worry is that I don’t even see those players having much impact if the tactics don’t change. We don’t attack in any numbers and we don’t have many options in the other half. Personnel won’t affect that much. That’s the worry for me.

I hold the same hope but as you said in another thread, some fans are already out for him and a we have a really tough month ahead.

Current writing on the wall is that he’ll be gone early next season to be replaced with another attacking manager…and we’ll keep doing that dance for the rest of our days.

 

[Lemonade Money]

I hold the same hope but as you said in another thread, some fans are already out for him and a we have a really tough month ahead.

Current writing on the wall is that he’ll be gone early next season to be replaced with another attacking manager…and we’ll keep doing that dance for the rest of our days.

Entitled impatient fans get what they deserve shocker.

 

[fernadez]

I said it before but people need to accept that Frank's job isn't gonna be under threat for a long time. The new structure, led by the man who kept Arteta when Arsenal fans were up in arms are gonna stick by the manager. More so when you see where Arsenal are now.

 

[Stiff_Swede]

The issue at the moment isn't about players or quality players. Yes we need more quality players, and yes the current players made a number of mistakes at crucial moments.

The issue is about setting the team up to control the game through possession or through tempo, both to do with taking the game forwards.

I know it's early days and not everything will work right away, but there has to be some signs of what the players are trying to do (from an attacking perspective). At the moment I can't see anything at all.

Apart from playing the ball from vdv to vicario to Bentencur to Porro....and Porro kicking it long down the line in the space behind the opposition full back.

Or play the ball to Spence and get him to run forwards with it in to space, then hope to figure something out.

Beyond the halfway line there are absolutely no patterns of play, or I haven't seen any...at all. Every team has something...

Yet, for corners we have loads of set plays...so many...

Don't agree we only have four elite players today available Romero, VdV, Palhinha and Kudus the rest is not good enough, no coach could get this team to perform where we want, top 10 would be a big step forward with the players we have.

 

[Stiff_Swede]

It’s what happens when players have so few good passing options on….

Don't agree we only have four elite players today available Romero, VdV, Palhinha and Kudus the rest is not good enough, no coach could get this team to perform where we want, top 10 would be a big step forward with the players we have.

 

[braineclipse]

That's what we had last year. Make your mind up.

I've been rather consistently against a defense first overly cautious style for years and years. I've been rather consistent in wanting to give managers time regardless of if they play the style I personally prefer.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Has it always been like this with a new manager? Every conversation reverting to a comparison with the previous guy in charge? Or is it just a result of how poor our attacking play has been under Frank and the contrast is so stark between the two?

Frank needs time, but Frank also has to improve some things. And while I accept that it takes time it can't just be "buy better players".

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Well in that case they are supporting the wrong team, or probably the wrong sport. Maybe flit between supporting whatever team is playing well that season.

You do realise they are also entitled to not pay the money? If Spurs supporters really expect to be entertained (and by that you actually mean win) every match, they are either new, or idiots.

Oddly enough, when I write 'entertained', I mean 'entertained' not 'win' or whatever else you choose to understand.

So, by the same logic, you don't have to go to the movies, to the restaurant, to the ballet... what's the point of any craft? Seasons tickets are sold on the promise that you will get an enjoyable experience - and that doesn't mean winning every game or clubs like Wolves or Sunderland would hardly sell any.

I'd say it's quite the opposite: people who want to be entertained and support Spurs are (at least, historically) making the right choice.

Of course, your opinion is as good as any, but I'm glad you're not managing the club. Your views are a little too... cynical for my taste. Then again, judging by what's been served up so far, maybe you are...

 

[tommysvr]

I said it before but people need to accept that Frank's job isn't gonna be under threat for a long time. The new structure, led by the man who kept Arteta when Arsenal fans were up in arms are gonna stick by the manager. More so when you see where Arsenal are now.

Why do we need to accept that though? It should be a given that a manager's job is not at risk 3 (or 23) months in.

 

[harr1984]

I said it before but people need to accept that Frank's job isn't gonna be under threat for a long time. The new structure, led by the man who kept Arteta when Arsenal fans were up in arms are gonna stick by the manager. More so when you see where Arsenal are now.

I don't know how it works at the Goons, but isn't it a board decision and not the decision of one person? I'm sure Levy literally said this not long ago....