Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
It’s what happens when players have so few good passing options on….
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Thomas Frank - Head Coach
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
Gazza Dazzla
Jimmy McCormick
Frank will get time if the fans stay off his back, history tells us that, it’s irrefutable. Whether he deserves it only time will tell.
El Dante
Les Ferdinand
If he wants fans off of his back we need to see serious improvements next weekend.
Robspur12
Pedro Mendes
Ok, I have calmed down a bit and trying to look at this with a bit more perspective.
Firstly, we know TF is doing a lot of good things.
Pros
He's made us more solid defensively. By defending better we are not seeing so many high intensity sprints that led to hamstring injuries last season.
Yes we are getting injuries, but the turn around to get those players back playing e.g. Romero and Udogie seems faster than last season. Part of that is to have the double pivot of Bents and Palhinha (also in some games a con).
He appears to be rotating effectively which is also helping the injury situation.
His attention to detail e.g. improving set pieces, is gaining points even if we are not playing well.
His preseason games showed we can go up against top teams and match them with good performances
Our away form is very good.
The Cons
Our attack is blunt to put it mildly. There is no obvious plan atm other than pass it to MK and hope for a bit of magic. Passing and creativity is simply lacking and we are risk averse.
Partly that is down to the missing players and new players who have not settled. But Richy is also out of form and Muani has been invisible. However, we know Brentford scored a lot of goals last season (66). So his teams can attack.
Our home form is getting to be as bad as last season.
My view remains that there are enough positive signs that he shouldn't be in any danger of being sacked. That said, he needs to arrest the home slump, and we have to find a way to be more effective offensively. He needs to get into Simons head so he can be the player we know he can be But he knows that....I really hope today was rock bottom and we will see some changes in the next few games.
Firstly, we know TF is doing a lot of good things.
Pros
He's made us more solid defensively. By defending better we are not seeing so many high intensity sprints that led to hamstring injuries last season.
Yes we are getting injuries, but the turn around to get those players back playing e.g. Romero and Udogie seems faster than last season. Part of that is to have the double pivot of Bents and Palhinha (also in some games a con).
He appears to be rotating effectively which is also helping the injury situation.
His attention to detail e.g. improving set pieces, is gaining points even if we are not playing well.
His preseason games showed we can go up against top teams and match them with good performances
Our away form is very good.
The Cons
Our attack is blunt to put it mildly. There is no obvious plan atm other than pass it to MK and hope for a bit of magic. Passing and creativity is simply lacking and we are risk averse.
Partly that is down to the missing players and new players who have not settled. But Richy is also out of form and Muani has been invisible. However, we know Brentford scored a lot of goals last season (66). So his teams can attack.
Our home form is getting to be as bad as last season.
My view remains that there are enough positive signs that he shouldn't be in any danger of being sacked. That said, he needs to arrest the home slump, and we have to find a way to be more effective offensively. He needs to get into Simons head so he can be the player we know he can be But he knows that....I really hope today was rock bottom and we will see some changes in the next few games.
totalspurs
Moussa Saib
The issue at the moment isn't about players or quality players. Yes we need more quality players, and yes the current players made a number of mistakes at crucial moments.
The issue is about setting the team up to control the game through possession or through tempo, both to do with taking the game forwards.
I know it's early days and not everything will work right away, but there has to be some signs of what the players are trying to do (from an attacking perspective). At the moment I can't see anything at all.
Apart from playing the ball from vdv to vicario to Bentencur to Porro....and Porro kicking it long down the line in the space behind the opposition full back.
Or play the ball to Spence and get him to run forwards with it in to space, then hope to figure something out.
Beyond the halfway line there are absolutely no patterns of play, or I haven't seen any...at all. Every team has something...
Yet, for corners we have loads of set plays...so many...
Bedfordspurs
Gary Lineker
Just saying
We don’t know how the hamstring injuries occurred
We do know we still have tonnes of injuries playing brick football
Robspur12
Pedro Mendes
Youre right but there is a different pattern to our injuries this season than last. This is not necessarily meant as a slight on Ange btw.
totalspurs
Moussa Saib
If you look at the team we put out only two players were new (three if you include xavi). They've all played together for a season or more.
Yet, suddenly we can't progress the ball forwards with kicking it long.... that's on the managers style of play and instructions.... surely.
Yet, suddenly we can't progress the ball forwards with kicking it long.... that's on the managers style of play and instructions.... surely.
Mikey10
Christian Ziege
I don’t remember us having much of a style for most of last season, other than an inability to defend. We were a terrible watch for 90% of our games.
It’s going to take to time. Full stop.
Robspur12
Pedro Mendes
3 of the new ones were attackers. I agree it's not black and white, i.e. all on new players or all on the manager. At this point probably a bit of both.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
Great post.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
It's also going to take trust in his long-term intent. I want to trust that he will develop his attacking creativity. I want to start seeing some signs that this will happen so as i can feel more comfortable doing so. I want to believe, and my nature is generally to be positive. Here's hoping...
Mr Gogolak
Steven Caulker
One thing I would add is that it looks like playing high-intensity games in quick succession is taking a toll on the squad. There's more depth than last season, but I think in the short run, for a side like ours, the Champions League is going to cost points. It might help the players going forward but the lack of movement is proof that we're going to pay the price in the league.
Regardless, today's performance was absolutely abject and when complaining about fans' attitude, people should remember that they're not exactly giving tickets away these days. When you charge fans that much money, I think they're entitled to expect some form of entertainment.
I watched the game on replay and even on x4 speed, I considered scratching my eyes out.
Regardless, today's performance was absolutely abject and when complaining about fans' attitude, people should remember that they're not exactly giving tickets away these days. When you charge fans that much money, I think they're entitled to expect some form of entertainment.
I watched the game on replay and even on x4 speed, I considered scratching my eyes out.
Bedfordspurs
Gary Lineker
Not even sure there is ever a pattern with injuries
Other than some players seem to get more injured than others, as in, that’s a pattern
We have fudge loads of injuries playing turgid football
We had fudge loads playing suicide football
Don’t know what the answer is
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Bedfordspurs
Gary Lineker
I’d love to see us play one high intensity game TBH
Haven’t seen that in a LONG while
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Paul Stalteri
What would you like to see Frank have learned after the game today? What did he learn today that he did not know before the game? Because I would contend again that what we are seeing is deliberate. It is the result of his choices. In order to not see something so bad in possession, he has to make different choices and give different instructions. It’s as simple as that.
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Bedfordspurs
Gary Lineker
Scary thing is we have a manager making people consider whether they go to a home game
We had it last year but that void was filled with more tourists
Tourists won’t pay to watch us
We had it last year but that void was filled with more tourists
Tourists won’t pay to watch us
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Paul Stalteri
I think what’s interesting about this is that I think we’ve definitely had ‘turgid’ performances before, when managers might have an idea of playing more in possession but things aren’t clicking. And that might come down to missing a key player that makes the system tick. Like I think losing Carrick did for Jol. Not getting Moutinho probably did for AVB. You can criticise those coaches for not adapting, and actually they did in a lot of cases, but I think largely they were examples of not quite having the tools to play the possession game that made them their reputations.
This is the first time I can recall a manager we have who actually just does not have an offensive plan beyond what we are seeing. I will grant that on better days we will win more duels, flick ons etc. We’ll get a bounce of the ball more than we did. But we are seeing what the intention is. And that’s quite a new thing. Probably not since Santini.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Paul Stalteri
I just watched the Adam Clery video that was posted on here earlier in the week, and I thought it really well brought to life some of the issues with what we saw today.
Since the Chelsea game there have been a fair few posts saying it’s the players, they aren’t good enough to do anything better than what we’ve seen. And with the greatest of respect, that simply isn’t true. What that video makes clear, is what we have been seeing in every game, which is a giant yawning gap between the defence and the front line. There is no midfield, there is no intention of playing through midfield, and it seems that the whole idea is to play some kind of % football whereby it won’t ever look pretty but if we get the right knock down, we have a 4 v 4 for example.
It is clearly Frank getting used to having the initiative every game, so my question is: is what we’re seeing because Frank is right, and the players need to learn to be solid before he can evolve the style? Or does Frank need to learn about how to be comfortable when he is expected to dominate possession and win?
I would also contend that if his idea was that we were soft under Ange and he needed to ‘fix’ it, this was a bad way of reading the situation. Because it would mean he’s gone so far towards the other end that he’s lost any of the attacking principles we also need. And football is linked. It’s not like you can be naturally good in attack and if you just work out the defence, you’ll be great. If Ange’s football is working well, we would look great in attack and in defence we would be swarming the opposition so much that they wouldn’t be able to find their feet. As it was, it was not working well so we had plenty of games where we looked bad offensively and defensively. It’s not like a pure defensive focus would remedy the issue of the team…because it is all linked. Every choice has a trade off.
The other thing the video notes that is right is that in the Everton game, Porro was inverting. It’s like a small offer of sacrifice to giving us a passing option through the middle, as opposed to the 4-2-4 when pressed or the 4-1-5 when not. So it’s not like Frank doesn’t know some things could be changed. My question is why did we see none of that innovation today? Everton was interesting because we created an overload on the right with Kudus and Johnson, and that’s probably why Porro inverted to get a lane into them. But we saw absolutely nothing today.
The players can’t be happy with this. I’m sure they appreciate the set pieces. And the away results. But a performance like today is embarrassing for them. Because they didn’t compete. Something needs to drastically change. I do believe Frank needs to get more comfortable taking risks as Spurs manager. The players are better than he is giving them credit for.
Since the Chelsea game there have been a fair few posts saying it’s the players, they aren’t good enough to do anything better than what we’ve seen. And with the greatest of respect, that simply isn’t true. What that video makes clear, is what we have been seeing in every game, which is a giant yawning gap between the defence and the front line. There is no midfield, there is no intention of playing through midfield, and it seems that the whole idea is to play some kind of % football whereby it won’t ever look pretty but if we get the right knock down, we have a 4 v 4 for example.
It is clearly Frank getting used to having the initiative every game, so my question is: is what we’re seeing because Frank is right, and the players need to learn to be solid before he can evolve the style? Or does Frank need to learn about how to be comfortable when he is expected to dominate possession and win?
I would also contend that if his idea was that we were soft under Ange and he needed to ‘fix’ it, this was a bad way of reading the situation. Because it would mean he’s gone so far towards the other end that he’s lost any of the attacking principles we also need. And football is linked. It’s not like you can be naturally good in attack and if you just work out the defence, you’ll be great. If Ange’s football is working well, we would look great in attack and in defence we would be swarming the opposition so much that they wouldn’t be able to find their feet. As it was, it was not working well so we had plenty of games where we looked bad offensively and defensively. It’s not like a pure defensive focus would remedy the issue of the team…because it is all linked. Every choice has a trade off.
The other thing the video notes that is right is that in the Everton game, Porro was inverting. It’s like a small offer of sacrifice to giving us a passing option through the middle, as opposed to the 4-2-4 when pressed or the 4-1-5 when not. So it’s not like Frank doesn’t know some things could be changed. My question is why did we see none of that innovation today? Everton was interesting because we created an overload on the right with Kudus and Johnson, and that’s probably why Porro inverted to get a lane into them. But we saw absolutely nothing today.
The players can’t be happy with this. I’m sure they appreciate the set pieces. And the away results. But a performance like today is embarrassing for them. Because they didn’t compete. Something needs to drastically change. I do believe Frank needs to get more comfortable taking risks as Spurs manager. The players are better than he is giving them credit for.
As I've said previously it's about whether you like the manager or not. Last season with a worse squad when some of us were saying the squad is massively overrated we was told our squad is fine and it's just big bad Ange that's the problem. Add Xavi, Kudus, Muani, Palhina to the squad and a load of the same people are now saying it's the players that are the problem. Go figure....