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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
The ‘our players are brick’ argument is just bonkers. They are all full internationals right now. They are clearly not as bad as they are showing right now. They are not so bad to be losing at home to West Ham and not playing barely a through ball all season. The issue is bigger than that. But the players in a better atmosphere, in a different system, would look perfectly fine.
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No it’s not they are brick. They are not top 6 quality . As I have said it’s a combination of things. A decline in squad quality . A reliance on youngsters who we hope to come good. A mid table manager all compounded to where we are.

They are ok players. Thats it.
 
Bishop said:
As always, it's not letting someone go that is the issue. It's whom you replace them with.

When we sack Frank, if the next guy struggles as much sacking Frank won't necessarily be the wrong decision but who comes in to replace might be (in all likelyhood, will be).
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This is a fair enough argument. Also a fair argument is that we shouldn’t have sacked a guy who took the players through a season of horrendous injuries, never lost the dressing room, and won a trophy at the end of it.

It is fair enough to question whether actually Ange wasn’t the issue, and the injuries were. And it’s fair enough to wonder whether appointing Frank to solve a defensive issue or to give us less injuries was actually just a bad decision, because it was the wrong diagnosis of the reasons for our struggles last season.
 
totalspurs said:
I just think we have bad JuJu... and that's due to how we treat managers imo.

We should never have sacked Poch...full stop.
We should never have sacked Mourinio before the final.
We should never have sacked Nuno for shiny Conte.
We should never have sacked Ang after he won us a trophy after 14 years.

I swear we have a curse on us, caused by treating people badly...
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Works for Chelsea …
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
This is a fair enough argument. Also a fair argument is that we shouldn’t have sacked a guy who took the players through a season of horrendous injuries, never lost the dressing room, and won a trophy at the end of it.

It is fair enough to question whether actually Ange wasn’t the issue, and the injuries were. And it’s fair enough to wonder whether appointing Frank to solve a defensive issue or to give us less injuries was actually just a bad decision, because it was the wrong diagnosis of the reasons for our struggles last season.
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Ange was an issue as is Frank.
 
Raziel said:
Out played again by a truly dross team

fudging ridiculous subs, taking Tel off and leaving RKM for the 90 is a fudging crime, and the deciding which of your long throw merchants you were bring on (Danso and Bergvall were both lined up to come on)

The only tactic is 50+ crosses a half into a box with one target ..

And conceding 2 goals and a xG of >3 against this West Ham

While another team that was supposedly terrible, replaces their manager with a caretaker and plays one of the best teams in the league and turns in a performance.
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Difference is Carrick loves United. Sometimes you need to be there for more than the paycheck.

I do also wonder if maybe TFs persona is too laid back for a club wanting to be challenging the top 4/6 clubs. I just don't see him calling out players and them even caring.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
This is a fair enough argument. Also a fair argument is that we shouldn’t have sacked a guy who took the players through a season of horrendous injuries, never lost the dressing room, and won a trophy at the end of it.

It is fair enough to question whether actually Ange wasn’t the issue, and the injuries were. And it’s fair enough to wonder whether appointing Frank to solve a defensive issue or to give us less injuries was actually just a bad decision, because it was the wrong diagnosis of the reasons for our struggles last season.
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I don't agree with the injuries, just as I don't see injuries as the reason for this season. We had plenty of problems before the onset of injuries under Ange.

As you know I do largely lay the blame at the quality of the players we have, as I did with Ange. For me it doesn't matter which coach we get in. Without drastically improving the quality of the squad, I roughly expect to see what we are seeing. Of course a special manager can get more out of them undoubtedly but he'd still just being getting an average group of players to perform at their zenith. If we want to do serious things we actually need serious quality, something we have very little of currently.

Ange's use of his players given their very obvious limitations was the problem. Likewise Frank not being able to corral then into something reasonable is also the problem.
 
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djp82 said:
No it’s not they are brick. They are not top 6 quality . As I have said it’s a combination of things. A decline in squad quality . A reliance on youngsters who we hope to come good. A mid table manager all compounded to where we are.

They are ok players. Thats it.
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I think in general our squad is at the start of a cycle. I think we made the right decision to do what we did during the Sherwood end / Poch start. Get good young players and see them peak 2-3 years down the line. Compounding what we’re seeing right now is the fact that we’re also in terrible form. So it’s the start of the cycle, and the form, that is making people say this squad is not good enough.

However I would say that even in the AVB, Sherwood, Poch early days. We were always top 6. I think that’s where we should be. I can accept that Villa may make it a top 7. I can accept some other club eg Saudi Sportswashing Machine may make it a top 8 if they have a good year. But I don’t think we should be below that. 8th is the bare minimum, which we accept if we see everything else pointing in the right direction, and have just had to deal with bad luck / an intense cup run.
 
Bishop said:
I don't agree with the injuries, just as I don't see injuries as the reason for this season. We had plenty of problems before the onset of injuries under Ange.

As you know I do largely lay the blame at the quality of the players we have, as I did with Ange. For it doesn't matter which coach we get in. Without drastically improving the quality of the squad, I roughly expect to see what we are seeing. Of course a special manager can get more out of them undoubtedly but he'd still just being getting an average group of players to perform at their zenith. If we want to do serious things we actually need serious quality, something we have very little of currently.
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As I said above, I expect us to be top 8 at a minimum. Absolute bare minimum. Would expect it under Ange, Frank, anyone. And under Ange, we were better than than up to the point of the City 4-0 last season (when we already had to play Dragusin and Davies at centre back).

I expect to be top 8 bare minimum barring exceptional circumstances. That’s all. You expect to be 14th because of the quality of the squad. Totally respect that, but a clear difference of opinion.
 
I don’t see anything changing in the way we play. Frank’s been under pressure for a couple months now and he hasn’t adapted how we play from what I can see. Get the ball to a winger, hope they can take on 2 players, if not turn back and play back to a centre back. Rinse and repeat until we can get a corner or a throw in to kill time.

We’re going to go to Burnley next week for a draw and hope to nick a set piece goal like we did away at Brentford. People will argue it’s a difficult place to go but it’s a lack of ambition in my eyes
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think in general our squad is at the start of a cycle. I think we made the right decision to do what we did during the Sherwood end / Poch start. Get good young players and see them peak 2-3 years down the line. Compounding what we’re seeing right now is the fact that we’re also in terrible form. So it’s the start of the cycle, and the form, that is making people say this squad is not good enough.

However I would say that even in the AVB, Sherwood, Poch early days. We were always top 6. I think that’s where we should be. I can accept that Villa may make it a top 7. I can accept some other club eg Saudi Sportswashing Machine may make it a top 8 if they have a good year. But I don’t think we should be below that. 8th is the bare minimum, which we accept if we see everything else pointing in the right direction, and have just had to deal with bad luck / an intense cup run.
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I get what you are saying but not all youngsters come good. So that’s a gamble. Top clubs buy quality.

So we are about par for the course then. Mid table squad and manager.

Add Kulu and Maddison we might be firmly in top 10 . Nothing more.
 
elyid said:
I think Nuno was the correct decision.

But the others weren’t, and still can’t believe we sack Mourinho before a final. Winning one-off games is his main skill ffs grrrrrr
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IIRC at the time Pep had won 17/18 (might be slightly wrong) finals he had been in, the one defeat...to Mourinho.

We should have waited to see how the final panned out first
 
djp82 said:
I get what you are saying but not all youngsters come good. So that’s a gamble. Top clubs buy quality.

So we are about par for the course then. Mid table squad and manager.

Add Kulu and Maddison we might be firmly in top 10 . Nothing more.
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I think unless we get more money to compete at the level even of Liverpool we are following the right strategy, but I don’t think this is par for the course. There’s a massive difference between being 14th and losing at home to a terrible West Ham (deservedly) and being say 9th but looking like things are about to click for the second half of the season.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think unless we get more money to compete at the level even of Liverpool we are following the right strategy, but I don’t think this is par for the course. There’s a massive difference between being 14th and losing at home to a terrible West Ham (deservedly) and being say 9th but looking like things are about to click for the second half of the season.
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We’ve lost to terrible West Ham sides before. It’s happened before it will again.

We are miserable mid table muck.

Have a good one.
 
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