Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

[DeanoAustin]

I think these players have been sorely let down by management and board. They didn't display the ultimate mutiny (ignoring what he told them to do) and tried to apply those tactics until the final whistle last night. Some will be moved on, but I hope we can somehow convince the likes of Romero and VdV to stick around; it will be a tall order.

They have been. Our board are a fudging disgrace but I've been very, very disappointed in some of the stuff I've read over the last 24 hours.

To get beaten by Woolwich, embarrassed really, and be read the riot act afterwards regarding standards and to then turn up late the next day. That's beyond unacceptable from anyone let alone our captain. Unprofessional. If you don't rate the manager, fair enough. Show some fudging professional pride and some willingness to do things right.

I've always defended the players on here as fundamentally good pros but if what we are reading is true, it's no wonder that we are in the mess we are in. I'm ashamed to support this club right now because everywhere that I look, I see people half arsing it, being incompetent, lying or being unprofessional.

 

[fernadez]

Don't agree. That speech has been had by and with every manager along this path. They've all said the Ra, Ra things people want to hear. Like so many fans, I'm sick of the lip service at this point. Frank even tried in subtle ways to have the honesty conversation but got shot down. That is OUR club's cultural and denial problem, not his. The new manager needs to also talk about the boundaries of being a Spurs manager. Hopefully he would also say that is a talented bunch that our not reaching their potential and talk about his own expectations on them to find new levels.

I want the new manager to start with the honest conversation. I'll respect him more if he talks about the potential and the hard work. I'll respect him more if he lays down some changing room boundaries and talks about the minimum he expects from every player and coach.

You can summarise Spurs to one posters comment the other day "I see Muani has come on for his weekly 20 min jog". We've watched this with so many of our players, proving at least to me that the performances won't change until we stop making this losing culture perfectly acceptable. Our players do things that they just know would never be acceptable at other clubs.

It's sort of why I'm intrigued by De Zerbi. Do we need an arm round the shoulder type or are we now done with that? We've talked a lot about he stylistic fit with the football philosophy. We obviously need that. However, we do need to think about the personality type we need. Ultimately, Poch's players played for him until they didn't. Then it turned ugly. It's turned ugly very quickly for every manager since. That is a club cultural problem. That is to do with the players not having our club charter in their belief system. It's because Tavistock/ENIC allow that culture in their organisations. So we need a motivator. We need a culture obsessed manager and we need a major tactician in the style of football we want to play. Would de Zerbi create that siege mentality we see at other clubs with managers like Pep, Arteta and Emery?

Part of that culture is the quality of player. Rooney spoke about scoring a hat trick on his Utd debut and everyone carrying on like it was normal. You don't get that when the players brought in are in main backups and potential. When's the last time you heard about a player signing for us, having his first training session and all the other players being in awe of thier ability, or even coming in a demanding standards?

If any of us turned up for work and the new starters were worse then the current staff 1or some work experince jobbies, what happens to the level of team performance. Our club charter is do jus1t enough and the players we bring in represent that, I think they buy in perfectly to the culture. The manager is of little importance as we've shown by having every tactical and motivational type going.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't have a problem with that either, but a) I'm not a professional football player and b) saying that when managing a group of players who just won a European competition with a manager who told them the exact opposite was certainly a faux pas. It would have been ok if he had us challenging for a Top 6 spot (we would have been in the 'can't win all the time' category) but with hindsight, when you're hovering above the relegation zone, it really makes you look like a loser and an idiot to boot.

Of course, it was true - nobody's questioning that - but it was a poor move to try and mitigate expectation at a club like Spurs. Saying we would lose game didn't protect him at all when things turned sour. On the other hand, if had promised to win games, nobody would have held that against team if we'd been challenging for a European spot.

At the end of the day, what you say in a conference press is all about perceptions and a sentence like that certainly sends the wrong message, even more so when you're coming from what people perceive as a 'smaller' club.

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This is it

 

[Mr Gogolak]

You can summarise Spurs to one posters comment the other day "I see Muani has come on for his weekly 20 min jog". We've watched this with so many of our players, proving at least to me that the performances won't change until we stop making this losing culture perfectly acceptable. Our players do things that they just know would never be acceptable at other clubs.

I'm sad to admit that, so far, Conte has been proved right. He clearly lost his temper but everything he said was true.

One of a problem at a club like Spurs is that signing players isn't enough. We want outstanding players. That's part of the reason why we've never been able to focus on their personalities. Sometimes, you stumble onto model pros but you can't shackle yourself with too many variables: they need to be flashy, young, ask for reasonable wages, want to come to an upper mid-table team... It's just impossible. So, we sign players who tick as many boxes as we can, and find out about who they are later on. Brentford, on that aspect, seem to be miles ahead of us but they don't operate with the same constraints.

Note that, despite their money and fame, Real Madrid have exactly the same problem (with a different calibre of players, though).

 

[Mr Gogolak]

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This is it

Thanks for that, I guess. Sometimes, you have to wonder what goes through people's head... he even says it's a mistake in the same sentence!! It feels like he did on purpose. Guy should see a shrink.

 

[Muttley]

Part of that culture is the quality of player. Rooney spoke about scoring a hat trick on his Utd debut and everyone carrying on like it was normal. You don't get that when the players brought in are in main backups and potential. When's the last time you heard about a player signing for us, having his first training session and all the other players being in awe of thier ability, or even coming in a demanding standards?

If any of us turned up for work and the new starters were worse then the current staff 1or some work experince jobbies, what happens to the level of team performance. Our club charter is do jus1t enough and the players we bring in represent that, I think they buy in perfectly to the culture. The manager is of little importance as we've shown by having every tactical and motivational type going.

No arguments from me. I've spent a very long time talking about the quality over quantity model in transfers. We sign way too many average players. This also relates to the boundaries the manager should respect and talk about. There is no point talking like a Real Madrid manager when you're a Spurs one. You accepted the challenge and the boundaries that came with it. You need to stay on message with that thought process in mind and gradually raise expectations as magic happens.

 

[Muttley]

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This is it

This is how a Spurs manager should talk. We shouldn't be in shock when our manager's tell the truth. That helps with the culture change we need to go through. Then as the green shoots appear then the messaging changes with it.

There is just no point creating echo chambers in life. It gets you nowhere.

 

[DeanoAustin]

This is how a Spurs manager should talk. We shouldn't be in shock when our manager's tell the truth. That helps with the culture change we need to go through. Then as the green shoots appear then the messaging changes with it.

There is just no point creating echo chambers in life. It gets you nowhere.

That's not how any manager should talk. A manager's job is to get the best out of players - the message to them can't be that "we will lose games". There is truth and there is how you articulate the truth. You need to get both right to get players onside.

If I was a player listening to that, I'd be less than impressed.

 

[Surfless]

Part of that culture is the quality of player. Rooney spoke about scoring a hat trick on his Utd debut and everyone carrying on like it was normal. You don't get that when the players brought in are in main backups and potential. When's the last time you heard about a player signing for us, having his first training session and all the other players being in awe of thier ability, or even coming in a demanding standards?

If any of us turned up for work and the new starters were worse then the current staff 1or some work experince jobbies, what happens to the level of team performance. Our club charter is do jus1t enough and the players we bring in represent that, I think they buy in perfectly to the culture. The manager is of little importance as we've shown by having every tactical and motivational type going.

this is a great post.

There have been significant companies across the world who have had to do a root and branch review of their operations in the past to get to the bottom of in-built failure which has dogged them - these were massive companies at times - Lego, Ford but probably most famously Apple pre Steve Jobs.

We hired Vinai as a guy with a big reputation for being a capable CEO - he now needs to show himself as being that guy and lead a complete restructure.

We need a new Director of Football, as Johan Lange is directly responsible for the state of the squad, the approach to recruitment, and the selection of the recently departed manager. We need someone with clear skills and a connection with football who wants to take us forward in a direction that steps off of the Levy years of conservative and cautious dealings. We need to go and get the correct people from our competitors, in the same way that Chelsea did with Frank Arnesen.

We need to appoint a manager who is clear on the DNA of our football - that we are a side that attacks, plays on the front foot and dominates the opposition - this also needs to be updated to reflect the current level the squad is at, and a full assessment of that needs to be done to identify short, medium and long term player targets.

The academy we see so much positive news from needs to start translating these youth performers into rounded capable footballers who can step up and become part of the team - Mikey Moore aside, we're literally going back to Harry Kane for a truly successful youth development.

Finally the board needs to find a manager, irrespective of style of play, who can get us the 10-15 points we need to stay in the division.

 

[tommysvr]

That's not how any manager should talk. A manager's job is to get the best out of players - the message to them can't be that "we will lose games". There is truth and there is how you articulate the truth. You need to get both right to get players onside.

If I was a player listening to that, I'd be less than impressed.

I think in isolation there's absolutely nothing with Frank's comments there. But it's not in isolation. It's part of a really complicated wider situation. And I think it's very relevant to your other post about Romero and professional standards.

Compare it to a real life situation many of us would have been in. The boss that you love working for, the one that inspires and motivates you and helped you achieve a result no one else at your company has been able to achieve for a long time gets fired almost immediately afterwards. Would you not feel like your achievements have been diminished?

Then you see the manager brought into replace them. A nice guy but someone you can ultimately tell doesn't quite have the same...whatever it is...about them. Who changes from "I always achieve great things" to "I'm not expecting all that much." Your motivation is going to change, your professionalism will probably drop. Most of us would probably be out applying for new jobs pretty quickly.

 

[lurker of old]

The interim manager needs to have immense self-confidence and to transmit that to the players. To remind them that they ARE great players who were shackled by a useless manager, but can now be great again. Its just about confidence.
If the 11 play as a team, that would be a huge improvement. Keep it simple, 442, play as a Tottenham team, pass and move, when you can shoot...do so.

 

[billyiddo]

Actions will always speak louder than words, of course.
However, taking the action of speaking positive words is a massive step towards getting real actions/reactions from a dressing room.
That is a proven fact in football (and, indeed, life).

I absolutely disagree with the second bit bold-faced, especially in the modern era where initial perception is (almost sadly) everything. It is absolutely vital that whoever comes in says the 'right' things in public, if only to warm the stands up and get people believing. Obviously the second part stands as fact, but it is not seperable from the first bit. ALL of it is important, it all forms the overall temperature and attitude.

The press conferences are more for getting the buy in from supporters and shaping outside perception than the players or club hierarchy who will get theirs from the day to day interactions with the manager, doubt any players will watch a press conference.

 

[billyiddo]

I'm sad to admit that, so far, Conte has been proved right. He clearly lost his temper but everything he said was true.

One of a problem at a club like Spurs is that signing players isn't enough. We want outstanding players. That's part of the reason why we've never been able to focus on their personalities. Sometimes, you stumble onto model pros but you can't shackle yourself with too many variables: they need to be flashy, young, ask for reasonable wages, want to come to an upper mid-table team... It's just impossible. So, we sign players who tick as many boxes as we can, and find out about who they are later on. Brentford, on that aspect, seem to be miles ahead of us but they don't operate with the same constraints.

Note that, despite their money and fame, Real Madrid have exactly the same problem (with a different calibre of players, though).

I really don't like how Conte gets made out to be some kind of martyr to the cause. He wasn't really saying anything different to what Pochettino was saying with the new house/better furniture comments - two different approaches to saying the club needs to step up, one doing so out of passing the buck/self preservation the other doing so because he wanted to illicit change and be part of that new direction.

 

[braineclipse]

This is how a Spurs manager should talk. We shouldn't be in shock when our manager's tell the truth. That helps with the culture change we need to go through. Then as the green shoots appear then the messaging changes with it.

There is just no point creating echo chambers in life. It gets you nowhere.

There are thousands of true things a manager could say. Many of them won't be particularly helpful to say.

I'm a big fan of people in this kind of role showing confidence in themselves and the players. Ultimately what happens in press conferences isn't that important, but it's part of how a manager presents himself and I'm guessing there are similarities between how they are in press conferences and elsewhere.

Any examples of a manager saying "true things" leading to a culture change at a club?

 

[Baleforce]

That's not how any manager should talk. A manager's job is to get the best out of players - the message to them can't be that "we will lose games". There is truth and there is how you articulate the truth. You need to get both right to get players onside.

If I was a player listening to that, I'd be less than impressed.

If I was a player listening to that, I’d try and prove him wrong by working so hard we didn’t ever lose a game.

 

[Baleforce]

There are thousands of true things a manager could say. Many of them won't be particularly helpful to say.

I'm a big fan of people in this kind of role showing confidence in themselves and the players. Ultimately what happens in press conferences isn't that important, but it's part of how a manager presents himself and I'm guessing there are similarities between how they are in press conferences and elsewhere.

Any examples of a manager saying "true things" leading to a culture change at a club?

Sir Alex when he went into United and got them out the pub.

Wenger when he went into Arsenal and made them eat pasta.

Jose when he went into Chelsea.

 

[braineclipse]

Sir Alex when he went into United and got them out the pub.

Wenger when he went into Arsenal and made them eat pasta.

Jose when he went into Chelsea.

Not old enough to remember early days Ferguson, and can't say I remember early days Wenger well enough either.

Mourinho came in with buckets of confidence and had no problems expressing it. All three had no issues glossing over or not telling the full truth about things.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

That's not how any manager should talk. A manager's job is to get the best out of players - the message to them can't be that "we will lose games". There is truth and there is how you articulate the truth. You need to get both right to get players onside.

If I was a player listening to that, I'd be less than impressed.

But with all due respect the flip on that is, managers can come in and give it all the PR value we fans want to hear and not win anything. We lucked with Ange because he did it and delivered a trophy but how many managers have in the last 20 years, we can debate win % and thats a relevant argument but everyone bar Ange has been a failure here when all is said and done, so yes PR value is important to a level but I think we put WAY too much emphasis on it.

As others have said, I doubt the players put any thoughts into whats said in pressers anymore than they do when they speak in generic terms in their own, its more important whats said behind closed doors and Frank maybe got that wrong and lost the players, but it wouldn't be what he said in the pressers.

The big issue with Frank in Pressers from a fan perspective is he was too honest IMO and fans don't like a mirror held up to them, yes he ended up being a poor manager but it doesn't make his points any less relevant or right IMO either, they are two separate things

 

[braineclipse]

But with all due respect the flip on that is, managers can come in and give it all the PR value we fans want to hear and not win anything. We lucked with Ange because he did it and delivered a trophy but how many managers have in the last 20 years, we can debate win % and thats a relevant argument but everyone bar Ange has been a failure here when all is said and done, so yes PR value is important to a level but I think we put WAY too much emphasis on it.

As others have said, I doubt the players put any thoughts into whats said in pressers anymore than they do when they speak in generic terms in their own, its more important whats said behind closed doors and Frank maybe got that wrong and lost the players, but it wouldn't be what he said in the pressers.

The big issue with Frank in Pressers from a fan perspective is he was too honest IMO and fans don't like a mirror held up to them, yes he ended up being a poor manager but it doesn't make his points any less relevant or right IMO either, they are two separate things

I didn't see him as that honest personally. Had he come in and said that in the first season the focus will be on defensive solidity and set pieces rather than attacking and our in possession game that would have been honest. Instead he spoke about the importance of goals and attacking football.

We all knew we would lose football matches, that's not an issue in itself. It's true, but it doesn't have to be said, everyone already knows that.

Ange was way more honest, maybe too honest at times (like the City game thing, he spoke his opinion it seemed and it tinkles quite a few people off).

What's the too honest opinions Frank came out with?

 

[Mikey10]

I don't have a problem with that either, but a) I'm not a professional football player and b) saying that when managing a group of players who just won a European competition with a manager who told them the exact opposite was certainly a faux pas. It would have been ok if he had us challenging for a Top 6 spot (we would have been in the 'can't win all the time' category) but with hindsight, when you're hovering above the relegation zone, it really makes you look like a loser and an idiot to boot.

Of course, it was true - nobody's questioning that - but it was a poor move to try and mitigate expectation at a club like Spurs. Saying we would lose game didn't protect him at all when things turned sour. On the other hand, if had promised to win games, nobody would have held that against team if we'd been challenging for a European spot.

At the end of the day, what you say in a conference press is all about perceptions and a sentence like that certainly sends the wrong message, even more so when you're coming from what people perceive as a 'smaller' club.

I'd prefer my boss to say that sometimes things are going to go wrong but we'll deal with that and move on positively, rather than saying they expect constant perfection.

Anyhow, it was a throwaway comment. As is usual nowadays, the 24 hour news cycle means there's no such thing any more.

I do feel that both our last two managers have been badly treated by the club when it comes to PR advice. They've both made pretty basic errors which those in authority should have been helping them to avoid.