The Overlap - some interesting comments from Ange

[Robspur12]

Ange is an enigma; fair play he does win stuff. He also seems to have a good relationship with his players and his football when it works can be scintillating to watch. So then you wonder why is he not universally loved by Spurs fans.

I'm afraid I am not convinced that winning the Europa League was an "amazing achievement" given the context around the win, i.e that he was able to give up on the league to do it and the quality of opposition in Europe just doesn't seem to be even close to that of the PL currently. That's not to say that it was not something great for us fans. But it wasn't the sign that Ange had somehow built us for repeated success. In fact, it could be argued that the Ange era (alongside other factors) kicked off the accelerated decline we are seeing now.

I believe that if any of the contextual stuff that had stopped us winning trophies with previous managers, existed last season, i.e having to compete in multiple tournaments at the same time or having to face a top team in the final, we wouldn't have got over the line. I mean even if we faced the same kind of challenge from teams around us for the last relegation place would we have still won the Europa League? Would we have been more resilient to the relegation threat than this season? His Forest experience suggests not.

And I'm afraid this is why I believe he was sacked and still think it was the correct decision. Now whether he should have been replaced by Thomas Frank is another discussion entirely.

 

[NoLimits01]

Whether anyone remembers what he did to Forest or not, I'm unsure how that would preclude him from having some thoughts/observations/criticisms, valid or otherwise, of our club? Or indeed, any other club he may have worked at.

That’s not what I meant

 

[braineclipse]

You probably want to watch the full interview with Ange before sticking with the ‘VDV and Romero forced him to change’ line. At the very least Ange offers an alternative and obviously fair perspective, and honestly it was always ridiculous stick to beat him with. And again I ask, if his system had been sussed then why were we doing ok in the top 7 up until our injuries started to bite after the City 4-0 win? We’ve clearly been ‘sussed’ far more this season.

Genuinely great watch for me though, the whole thing,

- commenting on the people running football clubs not really getting football. I actually never believed it until the decision to sack Ange and appoint Frank, and it’s unravelling.

- his point on the Europa win meaning he had the players in the palm of his hands and it would have been interesting to see what he could do. 100% agree with this and also that it would definitely have been better than whatever we had this season.

- open about where he’s taken risks with injuries and where he could have done better, eg VDV vs Chelsea.

- comments on leadership, and actually having won something being a really meaningful aspect. His choice to double down on the always in his second season comment. If he expects players to follow him, he has to project that confidence. Without wanting to stick the boot too much into Frank, he was just so far away from Ange’s level on this specific point.

- acknowledged the terrible decision to join Forest.

Loads of other good things. I really hope he lands somewhere great.

What we know is that VdV and Romero talked to Ange about our playing style in the EL and that we changed how we played.

That won't stop people saying that VdV and Romero forced him into it. However they actually would have done that I don't know. To me a manager being receptive to input from some of his best players seems like a strength, not a weakness.

 

[Lemonade Money]

To me a manager being receptive to input from some of his best players seems like a strength, not a weakness.

I agree, but Ange said he studied previous winners, saw they all played defensive, put it to the players, and they bought into it.
Like he said, 17th place no one wanted to take some of the blame, but winning the EL? Everyone wanted to take some credit.

 

[Bishop]

What we know is that VdV and Romero talked to Ange about our playing style in the EL and that we changed how we played.

That won't stop people saying that VdV and Romero forced him into it. However they actually would have done that I don't know. To me a manager being receptive to input from some of his best players seems like a strength, not a weakness.

I'd personally want the manager to have the perception themselves to make the adjustments that everyone but him could see were needed. It is a strength that he was receptive but it's primarily a weakness that it took his two senior CBs approaching about needing a change for him to actually make that happen.

 

[braineclipse]

I'd personally want the manager to have the perception themselves to make the adjustments that everyone but him could see were needed. It is a strength that he was receptive but it's primarily a weakness that it took his two senior CBs approaching about needing a change for him to actually make that happen.

Sure, he could have been a better manager had he seen that all on his own. I'm a rather strong believer in these things being a team effort including both the coaches and players as well as the manager in the vast majority of cases possibly with some exceptions for the very few elite managers around. Ange isn't one of them.