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The Official 2023/24 Premier League Thread

monkeybarry said:
Do you want extra accuracy for the money paid?
Or extra emotion, but accept inaccurate decisions?
(Remembering that previously the argument made above was often made as a pro VAR one)
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I think we in the ground should be at least a bit privvy to what is happening, we don't have Sky/TNT commentators telling the viewing public
 
monkeybarry said:
.....and accept the poor officiating.....
You accept that also?
You can't have both.

It's interesting you bemoan the tech existing, but most of your complaints are actually about human behaviour and decision making.
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There is always going to be poor officiating ( why should football be any different then other sports) and we live with it. The problem with VAR is the mistakes are still happening ( and always will) and it was supposed to stop mistakes, make the game better etc,etc but it has made the game a Varce to most fans i meet/see/talk with at the games.

Being at a game and getting the instant high of seeing goals scored is being ruined buy the fVARce and it leads to more arguments, groans, anger then there ever was before. Now sitting on arses watching games on the TV ( and we ALL do that) is not the same as actally being in the ground and the instant buzz you get with the crowd is NOT the same.

However i can see we are not going to agree over this ( Stop! Hammer time) so i guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
markysimmo said:
I think we in the ground should be at least a bit privvy to what is happening, we don't have Sky/TNT commentators telling the viewing public
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A bit like in rugby, where they show the incident on the screen?
I'd agree with that.
The current line on the big screen just saying "checking possible offside" does give the information though. So I guess it's the same as a ref going and talking to an asst ref, you don't know whats going on until the ref blows.
 
parklane1 said:
There is always going to be poor officiating ( why should football be any different then other sports) and we live with it. The problem with VAR is the mistakes are still happening ( and always will) and it was supposed to stop mistakes, make the game better etc,etc but it has made the game a Varce to most fans i meet/see/talk with at the games.

Being at a game and getting the instant high of seeing goals scored is being ruined buy the fVARce and it leads to more arguments, groans, anger then there ever was before. Now sitting on arses watching games on the TV ( and we ALL do that) is not the same as actally being in the ground and the instant buzz you get with the crowd is NOT the same.

However i can see we are not going to agree over this ( Stop! Hammer time) so i guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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It's not really a disagreement to be honest, I don't have a strong view about VAR existing or not other than it's not fit for purpose (as a process, the tech is fine) in its current form.

Even back when I had a season ticket I was more pragmatic and accepted that refs made mistakes, sometimes really stupid ones. I was also more likely to enjoy and celebrate good football than I was an average goal.
Buy fans, egged on by overanalytical media and cultural change for precision and immediate data, moved to a point where they were not tolerant of poor officiating or of mistakes. That led to some absolutely vile behaviour and chanting - you say VAR has ruined the game, but it's helped reduce the latter - which has to be an improvement, because there is no game without officials.

You are also wrong that VAR was brought in to "stop mistakes". Anyone that has a basic understanding of process design knows perfection doesn't exist.
It was brought it to HELP (or assist perhaps?!) referee's by seeing things they either couldn't see it didn't see accurately enough. I can, and should, still be able to do that - just not with the current set up.

It's VAR that's made the game perfection; VAR is poorly implemented symptom of a an intolerant fanbase, a sensationalist media and governing bodies that don't know their arse from their elbow.

I know I've said this a few times before, but it's worth repeating. I went to a Bundesliga game when Germany were the first major lge to implement VAR. An incident happened (a goal that was offside if I remember correctly) - VAR overturned the goal because the ref/ass ref didn't call it. It was dealt with before I even realised what was going on and before the fans had finished celebrating.
Quick, accurate, efficient. Didn't affect the flow of anything.

That's actually given me a good idea - maybe VAR needs a time limit? Rather than being a forensic tool, it can be literally be an Assistant Referee using Video to spot an obvious error. IE, if the Assistant spots error within 20 seconds and it's clearly wrong, he messages the on field ref. Rather than the constant delay and overanalyse we currently have.
That way it almost mimics the role of the linesman (AR) role in "helping" (assisting?!) the ref rather than re-refereeing a decision.

I know a crux of your point is fans don't like the delay and the impact on emotions, but a hell of a lot of those fans need to realise they are hypocritical - they abused refs and bemoaned the tiniest thing......this is the output.
 
monkeybarry said:
It's not really a disagreement to be honest, I don't have a strong view about VAR existing or not other than it's not fit for purpose (as a process, the tech is fine) in its current form.

Even back when I had a season ticket I was more pragmatic and accepted that refs made mistakes, sometimes really stupid ones. I was also more likely to enjoy and celebrate good football than I was an average goal.
Buy fans, egged on by overanalytical media and cultural change for precision and immediate data, moved to a point where they were not tolerant of poor officiating or of mistakes. That led to some absolutely vile behaviour and chanting - you say VAR has ruined the game, but it's helped reduce the latter - which has to be an improvement, because there is no game without officials.

You are also wrong that VAR was brought in to "stop mistakes". Anyone that has a basic understanding of process design knows perfection doesn't exist.
It was brought it to HELP (or assist perhaps?!) referee's by seeing things they either couldn't see it didn't see accurately enough. I can, and should, still be able to do that - just not with the current set up.

It's VAR that's made the game my favourite buttplug; VAR is poorly implemented symptom of a an intolerant fanbase, a sensationalist media and governing bodies that don't know their arse from their elbow.

I know I've said this a few times before, but it's worth repeating. I went to a Bundesliga game when Germany were the first major lge to implement VAR. An incident happened (a goal that was offside if I remember correctly) - VAR overturned the goal because the ref/ass ref didn't call it. It was dealt with before I even realised what was going on and before the fans had finished celebrating.
Quick, accurate, efficient. Didn't affect the flow of anything.

That's actually given me a good idea - maybe VAR needs a time limit? Rather than being a forensic tool, it can be literally be an Assistant Referee using Video to spot an obvious error. IE, if the Assistant spots error within 20 seconds and it's clearly wrong, he messages the on field ref. Rather than the constant delay and overanalyse we currently have.
That way it almost mimics the role of the linesman (AR) role in "helping" (assisting?!) the ref rather than re-refereeing a decision.

I know a crux of your point is fans don't like the delay and the impact on emotions, but a hell of a lot of those fans need to realise they are hypocritical - they abused refs and bemoaned the tiniest thing......this is the output.
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For starters they can get the technology used at the world cup for offsides. Worked perfectly and decision was there within 30 seconds max. Could also be shown on the big screens as well as nothing is being reviewed, it's like the goal line technology images.
 
P.D. said:
For starters they can get the technology used at the world cup for offsides. Worked perfectly and decision was there within 30 seconds max. Could also be shown on the big screens as well as nothing is being reviewed, it's like the goal line technology images.
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P.D. said:
For starters they can get the technology used at the world cup for offsides. Worked perfectly and decision was there within 30 seconds max. Could also be shown on the big screens as well as nothing is being reviewed, it's like the goal line technology images.
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I'll have to look that up. I didn't really watch the world cup. It sounds far too sensible and efficient to be from FIFA!
 
VAR reflect our modern life, everything is new, improved, will enhance the users experience, mostly it's not and disappoints. Our expectations were that errors would be either reduced or corrected yet they seemed to have increased. I would agreed that the management of the system is the problem. We will never get consistency with referees as they all interpret the game differently, some let games flow, some get influenced by crowds others are just poor. Until they sort out the protocols and training of users no one will totally be happy with the system.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
VAR reflect our modern life, everything is new, improved, will enhance the users experience, mostly it's not and disappoints. Our expectations were that errors would be either reduced or corrected yet they seemed to have increased. I would agreed that the management of the system is the problem. We will never get consistency with referees as they all interpret the game differently, some let games flow, some get influenced by crowds others are just poor. Until they sort out the protocols and training of users no one will totally be happy with the system.
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Down with technological advancement!
 
Lemonade Money said:
Down with technological advancement!
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At what price? If it serves all mankind I'm on board, if it just makes more money for the super rich and reduces jobs I'm a luddite. Most of us have worked in companies where technology has been introduced to improve productivity/efficiency/other benefits and found "the system" doesn't actually deliver its promises to either the user or your customer.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
At what price? If it serves all mankind I'm on board, if it just makes more money for the super rich and reduces jobs I'm a luddite. Most of us have worked in companies where technology has been introduced to improve productivity/efficiency/other benefits and found "the system" doesn't actually deliver its promises to either the user or your customer.
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There are always teething problems with new technology, but if you don't get past that where would we be? No cars, no phones, no TV?
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I cant think of any "thing" I like or would miss as much as my family, reading, music, drinking, food, good company, sport, playing cards, dogs and medicine that helps humanity.
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I'm assuming you grow all of your food, diet is dictated by harvest, playing cards are made from rock, music someone singing acapella, medicine is purely herbal, the dog is a pure bred etc
 
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