The Official 2023/24 Premier League Thread

[Grays_1890]

I'm more against paying ex refs to shamelessly defend ridiculous decisions and the whole jobsworth approach - "Train them better with the process" whilst stating that the process was correctly followed and "Simple as, you can't change the law" as if rules of football aren't frequently changed.

Merson might not be in mensa but his frustration at how flimflam the excuses are is reasonable enough, even if not delicately put but its not like Mike Dean would listen anyway if it was.

Im with you here

Refs/officials have IMO been scared into a hole when in reality they could taken the initiative and right a wrong. Had they taken that initiative and stopped the game seconds after the mistake and awarded the goal I can't believe Dean sits there, with them reaching the right decision, parroting on about "the laws of the game". In fact I would think they would be applauding the officials bravery

If we are saying the laws are stopping correct decisions, then there lies the problem no?

 

[Lilbaz]

View attachment 16160

Could We ???

Find it strange we got that many points in the 60s when it was 2 points for a win. But hey ho.

 

[Kandi1977]

But you can do what's actually right in the spirit of things, which is my point (and probably why I don't thrive in the corporate world!). The officials between them managed to circumvent the rule of offside by inadvertently ruling out a valid goal. It's not a "law" as such but if a real discussion was had outside of the melts in the VAR room bound by process something could have been done, it is entirely possible.

No, you can't do "what's right" when that is not within the laws of the game! You can't undo a mistake by making another 'mistake' on purpose!

 

[spurspinter1]

No, you can't do "what's right" when that is not within the laws of the game! You can't undo a mistake by making another 'mistake' on purpose!

It's not within the laws of the game to absent mindedly disallow a legitimate goal but they did it whether intentionally or not.. Knowingly rectifying the mistake isn't a mistake, it's resolving it.

I feel like you're seeing this issue a bit too much in the box, the realms of possibility would allow for the issue to have been solved. If you see the 10 seconds of dead play as a literal obstacle to the goal then okay. "There does have to be a procedure" has been said by countless drones doing flimflam and possibly inhumane tasks but sometimes you have to go beyond the t's and c's and actually look at the situation like a human rather than whimpering behind tinkle poor rules and regulations.

It wasn't in the rules of war to play football in no mans land on Christmas Day but the soldiers did it anyway

 

[Kandi1977]

It's not within the laws of the game to absent mindedly disallow a legitimate goal but they did it whether intentionally or not.. Knowingly rectifying the mistake isn't a mistake, it's resolving it.

I feel like you're seeing this issue a bit too much in the box, the realms of possibility would allow for the issue to have been solved. If you see the 10 seconds of dead play as a literal obstacle to the goal then okay. "There does have to be a procedure" has been said by countless drones doing flimflam and possibly inhumane tasks but sometimes you have to go beyond the t's and c's and actually look at the situation like a human rather than whimpering behind tinkle poor rules and regulations.

It wasn't in the rules of war to play football in no mans land on Christmas Day but the soldiers did it anyway

So where's the limit then? Where/when do you draw the line? 10 seconds? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 5 minutes? What if there's a red card situation in that time? Another goal scored? Serious injury? The implications of adding 'common sense' to rule outside of the laws of the game are huge! You potentially add more problems to a very very rare 'problem', that isn't really a problem.

 

[spurspinter1]

So where's the limit then? Where/when do you draw the line? 10 seconds? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 5 minutes? What if there's a red card situation in that time? Another goal scored? Serious injury? The implications of adding 'common sense' to rule outside of the laws of the game are huge! You potentially add more problems to a very very rare 'problem', that isn't really a problem.

You're saying that a perfectly legitimate goal being ruled out "isn't really a problem"? That's actually your take on this whole thing? Because that's a mighty odd stance to take given that goals are quite an important feature of football. If it'd gone against us no doubt your exclamation point key would be even more worn out than it already must be.

I'd say rectify any clear matter of fact massive fudge ups like this one we're talking about in the next stop of play, it's not rocket science. It was a goal so give it as one at the next available opportunity. They saw it was a goal on first viewing and it was miscommunication that stopped it being allowed so it's not like it took 40 minutes to figure it out.

It's like you have to pretend it was complicated as it benefited us, it was a yard onside whatever clownshoes protocol they have that doesn't mitigate for awful communication.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

One thing that has to be considered with var and goals in particular is that football is an incredibly low scoring game
And we as fans get very rare moments in reality to enjoy the highs
Technology should not be there to stop that
But similarly it shouldn’t create extra elements of excitement… like when an opposition goal gets dissolved afterwards
It’s all about muddled now IMO and does need a reset of sorts
Everything they decide should be for the benefit of scoring goals that should be scored within the rules

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Im with you here

Refs/officials have IMO been scared into a hole when in reality they could taken the initiative and right a wrong. Had they taken that initiative and stopped the game seconds after the mistake and awarded the goal I can't believe Dean sits there, with them reaching the right decision, parroting on about "the laws of the game". In fact I would think they would be applauding the officials bravery

If we are saying the laws are stopping correct decisions, then there lies the problem no?

Fully agree
But then, by rights we could ask for a replay legitimately as the refs would have broken their own rules
No rules were actually broken last week

 

[glasgowspur]

As much as I hate myself for sticking up for Liverpool, the var team did realise very quickly that a mistake had been made. If they had stopped play in the first 30 seconds BEFORE ANY MAJOR INCIDENT, held their hands to the mistake and awarded the goal I hope I'd be fair minded enough to go along with. Can't say that for certain, but I'd like to think I would.
Of course I would be mighty peeved the next time a decision went against us and it was ignored, as is usual.
Bissouma second yellow is a case in point, it was totally the correct decision, I'm glad he got the booking and equally glad that the spurs support seems to be in total agreement with it.
However, the next time I see a player simulate a foul I expect him to be booked. Bet it doesn't happen.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

As much as I hate myself for sticking up for Liverpool, the var team did realise very quickly that a mistake had been made. If they had stopped play in the first 30 seconds BEFORE ANY MAJOR INCIDENT, held their hands to the mistake and awarded the goal I hope I'd be fair minded enough to go along with. Can't say that for certain, but I'd like to think I would.
Of course I would be mighty peeved the next time a decision went against us and it was ignored, as is usual.
Bissouma second yellow is a case in point, it was totally the correct decision, I'm glad he got the booking and equally glad that the spurs support seems to be in total agreement with it.
However, the next time I see a player simulate a foul I expect him to be booked. Bet it doesn't happen.

So you just want consistency?
I think that’s a massive thing that’s just been lacking with var and it makes no sense as to why

 

[greatwhitenorf]

You're saying that a perfectly legitimate goal being ruled out "isn't really a problem"? ...

Not when it's been scored by Liverpool.

Or Arsenal.Or Chelsea.

 

[Kandi1977]

You're saying that a perfectly legitimate goal being ruled out "isn't really a problem"? That's actually your take on this whole thing? Because that's a mighty odd stance to take given that goals are quite an important feature of football. If it'd gone against us no doubt your exclamation point key would be even more worn out than it already must be.

I'd say rectify any clear matter of fact massive fudge ups like this one we're talking about in the next stop of play, it's not rocket science. It was a goal so give it as one at the next available opportunity. They saw it was a goal on first viewing and it was miscommunication that stopped it being allowed so it's not like it took 40 minutes to figure it out.

It's like you have to pretend it was complicated as it benefited us, it was a yard onside whatever clownshoes protocol they have that doesn't mitigate for awful communication.

Mistakes happen and it's part of the game. Always have been, always will. How often Does something like this happen?
Ohh, IT WAS THE fudging FIRST TIME!!! So is it significant, as in happens frequently? Definitely not!
If you don't understand that, then sorry I can't help you

 

[glasgowspur]

So you just want consistency?
I think that’s a massive thing that’s just been lacking with var and it makes no sense as to why

Yes, I think that's all everyone wants.
Just about every game I've ever seen in the last twenty years has had simulation, could probably count on two hands the amount of times it's resulted in a booking, a lot have been for penalties which is even worse.
I'm glad they took action yesterday, but I don't expect it to catch on, it really should, but I doubt it will.

 

[Kandi1977]

Everyone has been screaming for rules that are more black and white, with no interpretation.
I think it's hilarious that those same people now want a 'common sense rule' that potentially can cause a whole host of other problems, to 'solve' something that might occur in 1 in a million games. It's laughable!

 

[spurspinter1]

Everyone has been screaming for rules that are more black and white, with no interpretation.
I think it's hilarious that those same people now want a 'common sense rule' that potentially can cause a whole host of other problems, to 'solve' something that might occur in 1 in a million games. It's laughable!

Allowing a goal that is a legitimate goal is laughable, each to their own but I don't see the hilarious comedy there. Your love of procedure despite real life happenings is astounding, I'm going to guess a civil servant or parking enforcement officer?

Offside is a black and white rule, it is not weakened by subjective terms like "reckless" or deeming what is considered "excessive force", it's a quantifiable decision and simply put, someone is either offside or not*.

What will happen is that the communication approach will be idiot proofed to the point that this should never happen again, it clearly should have been done before so it's unlikely that we'll see an instance like this again so it's somewhat of a moot point I guess.

What problems is allowing a legitimate goal that was wrongly disallowed going to cause? Let's say there was a red card in the 10 seconds that followed Dias' goal, does that change that it was still a goal? To answer my own question, it certainly doesn't, so what's your problem with the idea? Do you just hate correct decisions being given? Help me to understand beyond the refs line of it being the procedure and that's just how it is, we have no way of changing the rules yada yada yada.

*In the case of whether someone is active in play like the Rashford one with City where it does admittedly get more complicated.

 

[spurspinter1]

Mistakes happen and it's part of the game. Always have been, always will. How often Does something like this happen?
Ohh, IT WAS THE fudging FIRST TIME!!! So is it significant, as in happens frequently? Definitely not!
If you don't understand that, then sorry I can't help you

There is potential for mistakes like this to happen until human error is removed from the decision making process in similar calls. Mistakes will always be a part of the game but an active choice to not rectify them doesn't have to be.

As I said in the other post, a clear and plain English implementation would go a long way but it's about a combination of the flow of the game (as we don't want it to take 10 minutes to quadruple check every decision) but also the spirit of the game. Whether it's this Dias incident or the countless other wrongly disallowed goals, the whole point of refs and the additional technology is to ensure that what happens on the pitch is rewarded within the reasonable rules that are in place to make it a brilliant game.

I feel like every point I'm making isn't going to penetrate your bad procedure fetish but try to think about it in good faith. I know we'll continue going round in circles if you don't grasp that legitimate goals should be awarded as such.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes, I think that's all everyone wants.
Just about every game I've ever seen in the last twenty years has had simulation, could probably count on two hands the amount of times it's resulted in a booking, a lot have been for penalties which is even worse.
I'm glad they took action yesterday, but I don't expect it to catch on, it really should, but I doubt it will.

Think that was the remit to refs this season. Clamp down on simulation, time wasting and disent.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Just clocked that our next two fixtures are Monday 23rd and Friday 27th.

Crazy scheduling that we get the last game one week and the first game the next gameweek, so the shortest possible recovery and prep time??

I bet that won’t happen to another club all season.

 

[Lilbaz]

Just clocked that our next two fixtures are Monday 23rd and Friday 27th.

Crazy scheduling that we get the last game one week and the first game the next gameweek, so the shortest possible recovery and prep time??

I bet that won’t happen to another club all season.

We have no european games. They want our games on tv (which we get more money from). Weird thing to complain sbout, apart from the fact it is a pain for fans attending the games.

 

[Kandi1977]

There is potential for mistakes like this to happen until human error is removed from the decision making process in similar calls. Mistakes will always be a part of the game but an active choice to not rectify them doesn't have to be.

As I said in the other post, a clear and plain English implementation would go a long way but it's about a combination of the flow of the game (as we don't want it to take 10 minutes to quadruple check every decision) but also the spirit of the game. Whether it's this Dias incident or the countless other wrongly disallowed goals, the whole point of refs and the additional technology is to ensure that what happens on the pitch is rewarded within the reasonable rules that are in place to make it a brilliant game.

I feel like every point I'm making isn't going to penetrate your bad procedure fetish but try to think about it in good faith. I know we'll continue going round in circles if you don't grasp that legitimate goals should be awarded as such.

OK, so in which instances should this "common sense" be used? There has to be some protocol for it! A penalty not given? Should that count? What about a save on the goal line with hands, and the penalty missed. It should have been a goal. The just thing would be award a goal, but it would also be utterly ridiculous!