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The Official 2023/24 Premier League Thread

Are you surprised? This was given to them too.
Not surprised, no. But frustrated, angry and tired of brick like this happening without anyone being held accountable.

Everybody can accept the occational refereeing error, but this is way beyond that. Double standards, incompetence, bias, corruption - whatever you wanna call it, this is a practice that more than anything else undermines the authority of and trust in referees.
 
Not surprised, no. But frustrated, angry and tired of brick like this happening without anyone being held accountable.

Everybody can accept the occational refereeing error, but this is way beyond that. Double standards, incompetence, bias, corruption - whatever you wanna call it, this is a practice that more than anything else undermines the authority of and trust in referees.
Yeah, I just cannot phantom how VAR can sit and look at that and say 'Yeah, that's a clear penalty!'
 
Not surprised, no. But frustrated, angry and tired of brick like this happening without anyone being held accountable.

Everybody can accept the occational refereeing error, but this is way beyond that. Double standards, incompetence, bias, corruption - whatever you wanna call it, this is a practice that more than anything else undermines the authority of and trust in referees.

I think a lot of people rightly felt and said the same for the perfectly legitimate goal ruled out for offside against us for Liverpool due to a farcical communications misunderstanding.

It's hard to make a case for the standards of referring being good enough but imo the corruption claims don't stack up because pretty much every team is getting horrendous calls going for / against them. It's hard to see how to improve things and to add some more accountability without going full on pitchfork equiped mob at the refs....

Edit - Admittedly it may be because I mainly watch Spurs but that Liverpool "offside" and the City stopping of a clear advantage are some of the worst decisions I've seen in a long time. I know folks won't like to hear it because it's more fun to moan about Liverpool but they were both outstandingly appalling. It's understandable to see why people don't have faith in either the technology or the personnel issues from just those two occasions imo.
 
I think a lot of people rightly felt and said the same for the perfectly legitimate goal ruled out for offside against us for Liverpool due to a farcical communications misunderstanding.

It's hard to make a case for the standards of referring being good enough but imo the corruption claims don't stack up because pretty much every team is getting horrendous calls going for / against them. It's hard to see how to improve things and to add some more accountability without going full on pitchfork equiped mob at the refs....

Edit - Admittedly it may be because I mainly watch Spurs but that Liverpool "offside" and the City stopping of a clear advantage are some of the worst decisions I've seen in a long time. I know folks won't like to hear it because it's more fun to moan about Liverpool but they were both outstandingly appalling. It's understandable to see why people don't have faith in either the technology or the personnel issues from just those two occasions imo.
Exactly. There is no conspiracy. There is no attempt to even things up from the Liverpool game earlier in the season. The VAR call The Dippers could have done with most was Odegaard’s handball which was a stonewall penalty and wasn’t given.

There are some incompetent calls and there are some inconsistent calls because there is an element of subjectivity. But there is no conspiracy or agenda.
 
Exactly. There is no conspiracy. There is no attempt to even things up from the Liverpool game earlier in the season. The VAR call The Dippers could have done with most was Odegaard’s handball which was a stonewall penalty and wasn’t given.

There are some incompetent calls and there are some inconsistent calls because there is an element of subjectivity. But there is no conspiracy or agenda.
That Odegaard handball was the kind of on field mistake that VAR is supposed to pick up and it felt extraordinary that it didn't. But for all the bad calls there are many more good calls that VAR makes every game that don't make the headlines. Refs are human and they make mistakes just like those players on the field paid vastly more than them. Having been an amateur ref myself I can tell you from experience they are the scape goats for everyone.
 
I understand ref’s will make mistakes, the issue is the room full of ref’s watching the mistake in various different angles and speed and making the same mistake, thats what makes it dodgy.
 
I understand ref’s will make mistakes, the issue is the room full of ref’s watching the mistake in various different angles and speed and making the same mistake, thats what makes it dodgy.
I don't go for the conspiracies against certain teams, but I do think there most be one to cover their incompetent colleagues.
 
That Odegaard handball was the kind of on field mistake that VAR is supposed to pick up and it felt extraordinary that it didn't. But for all the bad calls there are many more good calls that VAR makes every game that don't make the headlines. Refs are human and they make mistakes just like those players on the field paid vastly more than them. Having been an amateur ref myself I can tell you from experience they are the scape goats for everyone.
I feel sorry for them, I really do. They make some mistakes and every prick whinges about it in the media or on social media to deflect. They are far from perfect, there is room for improvement but the introduction of VAR, as far as the general public is concerned, has done nothing but brought an expectation of perfection from officials and perfection doesn't exist because some calls are subjective and people will judge them differently. At least before VAR people would often say "ah they only have a split second to see it so mistakes will happen" (albeit people whinged a lot then too).

And your point is correct, whether you agree with VAR or not, VAR does actually pick up a good number of incorrect calls but they get little recognition. Certainly nothing like the attention that the incorrect calls get.

I understand the complaining about the time delays too and it's bloody frustrating in the stadium. But having heard the audio of us v Chelsea, I can understand why. They had multiple things to review, it's high pressure, in front of millions where precision and accuracy is required. All the while, you're under pressure to make a quick decision.

The officials also aren't helped by the rules and the much lower threshold for cards (particularly red), what constitutes a foul and handball.

I also see at grassroots level an increasing frustration with officials to the point they are sometimes in physical danger and often subject to verbal abuse. There have been a number of incidents over here (not just in football) and quite a few in the UK I believe. I honestly believe that filters down from the top. Officials have become fair game for spacegoating and abuse.

I'd rather be a Woolwich fan than a match official...okay maybe not that extreme but you get the idea.
 
I feel sorry for them, I really do. They make some mistakes and every prick whinges about it in the media or on social media to deflect. They are far from perfect, there is room for improvement but the introduction of VAR, as far as the general public is concerned, has done nothing but brought an expectation of perfection from officials and perfection doesn't exist because some calls are subjective and people will judge them differently. At least before VAR people would often say "ah they only have a split second to see it so mistakes will happen" (albeit people whinged a lot then too).

And your point is correct, whether you agree with VAR or not, VAR does actually pick up a good number of incorrect calls but they get little recognition. Certainly nothing like the attention that the incorrect calls get.

I understand the complaining about the time delays too and it's bloody frustrating in the stadium. But having heard the audio of us v Chelsea, I can understand why. They had multiple things to review, it's high pressure, in front of millions where precision and accuracy is required. All the while, you're under pressure to make a quick decision.

The officials also aren't helped by the rules and the much lower threshold for cards (particularly red), what constitutes a foul and handball.

I also see at grassroots level an increasing frustration with officials to the point they are sometimes in physical danger and often subject to verbal abuse. There have been a number of incidents over here (not just in football) and quite a few in the UK I believe. I honestly believe that filters down from the top. Officials have become fair game for spacegoating and abuse.

I'd rather be a Woolwich fan than a match official...okay maybe not that extreme but you get the idea.

I need to dig out the article but there was a great one that I have always used as reference about how good refs actually were before VAR. I honestly think the added layer of VAR for subjective real time incidents has killed them and their confidence. The slowing down of things that are not IMO fouls or cards and the rule changes have fried their brains. Managers would always look for spacegoats pre VAR because the nature of the sport is "not my fault guv", we buckled to that and now find ourselves in a melting pot of scrutiny not helped by press, socials and ability from everyone with a PC and an account to slow anything down and use it as flimsy evidence.

The game IMO would be better with VAR as a tool for offside, goal line tech and leave the rest to the managers. Reinforce the message that Refs on the pitch decision is final and punish those who go out their way to cain a real time ref. BTW I think we allowed managers to moan about video refs and I agree with them given the promises made on its introduction. If possible gather the game up and stuff it back into Pandora's box before it gets worse
 
I need to dig out the article but there was a great one that I have always used as reference about how good refs actually were before VAR. I honestly think the added layer of VAR for subjective real time incidents has killed them and their confidence. The slowing down of things that are not IMO fouls or cards and the rule changes have fried their brains. Managers would always look for spacegoats pre VAR because the nature of the sport is "not my fault guv", we buckled to that and now find ourselves in a melting pot of scrutiny not helped by press, socials and ability from everyone with a PC and an account to slow anything down and use it as flimsy evidence.

The game IMO would be better with VAR as a tool for offside, goal line tech and leave the rest to the managers. Reinforce the message that Refs on the pitch decision is final and punish those who go out their way to cain a real time ref. BTW I think we allowed managers to moan about video refs and I agree with them given the promises made on its introduction. If possible gather the game up and stuff it back into Pandora's box before it gets worse
Good post. I was pro-VAR originally but I'd now happily use it as you suggest.
 
They should do the following imo;

Slow the whole process down, remove the rush to get to a decision.

Get rid of the clear and obvious caveat.

Let the ref choose to watch the replay screen whenever.

Reword the rules to make every law objective.
 
They should do the following imo;

Slow the whole process down, remove the rush to get to a decision.

Get rid of the clear and obvious caveat.

Let the ref choose to watch the replay screen whenever.

Reword the rules to make every law objective.
How do you make handball objective? Intent cannot be objective. If it's just a case of "ball hits hand" you see farcical decisions like Eric Dier v Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Sissoko v Liverpool (where a striker seems to deliberately kick the ball towards his arm).

Not used two of our examples because we get treated any worse than anyone else by the way, it's just coz I obviously watch more of us than other teams.
 
How do you make handball objective? Intent cannot be objective. If it's just a case of "ball hits hand" you see farcical decisions like Eric Dier v Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Sissoko v Liverpool (where a striker seems to deliberately kick the ball towards his arm).

Not used two of our examples because we get treated any worse than anyone else by the way, it's just coz I obviously watch more of us than other teams.

Make it that simple, ball touches hand, foul. Players will adjust.

If you are accurate and quick enough to kick the ball against a hand you deserve the FK.
 
The problem is everyone expected all the poor decisions would be sorted with the fantastic new kings clothes (VAR) and all it's done is create more issues. Instead of one man making a decision and it generally been accepted as all part of the game the whole world has a view and the people who manage the system do not inspire any confidence. Fans will always feel their team has been stitched up and social media feed on this paranoia.
 
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