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The midweek/weekend games thread
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
Don't let reason, facts and objective analysis get in the way of a good story.
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
That won't be good for PL or us. We have this virtual master-slave relationship with ManU. We always seem happy helping them win the title. In contract, you can expect some reaction from us if ManCity go on to win the title.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
You think Suarez is some sort of superstar then?
I agree with Totman, Suarez doesnt stand out.
Thats not to say in time he wont get better and impress, just that right now he really isnt producing anything exceptional at all
He's not a superstar, just a good player who offers something different upfront. Sadly his actions off the field would always form a prejudice against his footballing abilities and for that he's the only one to blame. For better or worse. Same with Terry
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He cant disagree with me though, because he asked me never to reply to him. Still reads my posts though and responds to me through others. Cowards way I suppose, but Im touched by it really.
Also, I give a massive amount of detail as to WHY, IN MY OPINION, he's average......yet no one seems to be able to point out his above average attributes. What is he so good at?
I really dont see it.
All I get is, "he plays for a top 7 team, he was good in Holland etc"
I really dont see it.
All I get is, "he plays for a top 7 team, he was good in Holland etc"
And 35 % tap-ins, surely?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I dont judge him as a footballer for his personality. Only for his game, and IMO Totman has thus far nailed it in his analysis of him.
Braineclipse is quite right in pointing out that in time Suarez might really excel, but he hasnt yet and thats all Ive got to judge him on.
Given your snarky comments I guessed you had more of an opinion to offer, rather than half baked ideas of prejudices based on his troubles
paxtonwolf
Tony Marchi
Well if they do, I really hope they will have to claw back a 5 point deficit by this time tomorrow!
I've given those numerous times in fact
His link-up play is one of the best in the Prem. Up there with Berbatov, Tevez, van Persie, etc. Great vision and technique, always looking to release a team mate, unselfish, etc.. On at least 8 occasions yesterday his clogger team mates didn't possess enough brain matter to read his one-twos or through balls and fcuked up what could have been great attacking moves. He was involved in everthing dangerous from their side. Dare I say in a good team he'll thrive, similar to Young, Hernandez, etc. Liverpool's attacking movement is very one-dimensional, with no real wide outlets
He's tennacious, hussles defenders, takes them on, can beat them from a standing start, unpredictable movement and very quick feet. Our strikers can take a leaf out of that book as far as work rate is concerned, that's for sure.
Single handedly destroyed Copa America last year and has become virtually the only creative outlet in what is arguable the worst Pool side since the early 2000s. Stand out head and shoulders in most games. That's no coincidence
Pav was average. So is Rodallega, Campbell, Ngog, etc. He most certainly isn't
Good point, and one I agree with. I have not written him off and said he will never make it. Ive said he is average, which he has been in the PL.
I will also say again that the people that disagree with me, seem to think the word average is alot worse than I think it is. Thats their problem.
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nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
So far for me he is all huff and puff and no end product.
I appreciate his effort, and can see he is a skillfull player - but believe unless he actually produces he isnt setting himself apart.
And I cant buy blaming the team for his lack of output. It can be a factor but he can still rise above it, if he is good enough.
So far he hasnt.
Pav wishes he was Average! Just like the others you name
I appreciate his effort, and can see he is a skillfull player - but believe unless he actually produces he isnt setting himself apart.
And I cant buy blaming the team for his lack of output. It can be a factor but he can still rise above it, if he is good enough.
So far he hasnt.
Pav wishes he was Average! Just like the others you name
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
@totman:
You agree that he has been Liverpool's best attacking player this season. By what standards is one of the stand out players of a team that is in 7th place in the table average? Certainly not an average PL player as that would be a player that is an average player at a mid table team, no? Are you saying that he's "an average top of the table player?"
I also think the statement "he is average" is very unbalanced. If someone "is" average that speaks about their abilities and as such also their potential abilities for the future.
Like what nayim posted above, he can see that he's a skillful player, but that he has to add end product to that to really stand out. That's a much more balanced opinion, not one I quite agree with as I think he already stands out, but one where nuances can be discussed.
I'm sorry, but if you don't understand the relevance of comparing the goal returns from the first PL seasons of other strikers that have gone on to be highly thought of when one of your main arguments is that "he doesn't score enough goals" I don't quite know what to say. You don't believe players need time to adapt to the PL? You don't think people can show potential and ability without scoring loads of goals in their first season? I'm actually hoping you're being willfully ignorant here, because I think most people realize that players need time to settle and to judge a player based on just one season is premature at the very best.
Edit: And again, a striker shouldn't just be judged on goal return. By that standard Darren Bent was one of our best strikers in the last decade.
You agree that he has been Liverpool's best attacking player this season. By what standards is one of the stand out players of a team that is in 7th place in the table average? Certainly not an average PL player as that would be a player that is an average player at a mid table team, no? Are you saying that he's "an average top of the table player?"
I also think the statement "he is average" is very unbalanced. If someone "is" average that speaks about their abilities and as such also their potential abilities for the future.
Like what nayim posted above, he can see that he's a skillful player, but that he has to add end product to that to really stand out. That's a much more balanced opinion, not one I quite agree with as I think he already stands out, but one where nuances can be discussed.
I'm sorry, but if you don't understand the relevance of comparing the goal returns from the first PL seasons of other strikers that have gone on to be highly thought of when one of your main arguments is that "he doesn't score enough goals" I don't quite know what to say. You don't believe players need time to adapt to the PL? You don't think people can show potential and ability without scoring loads of goals in their first season? I'm actually hoping you're being willfully ignorant here, because I think most people realize that players need time to settle and to judge a player based on just one season is premature at the very best.
Edit: And again, a striker shouldn't just be judged on goal return. By that standard Darren Bent was one of our best strikers in the last decade.
Im done with this. I think he's average, in the average sense of the word. Its not rocket science, there is no big bang theory behind it.
Im not wrong, you are not wrong. We just disagree.
Ive stated in alot of detail how I view him as a player. Dismiss it, or see the point Im making, its up to you. I accept that you rate him higher than I do, and I do not feel the need to convince you that he is average. To you, he isnt, and Im comfortable with that.
Im not wrong, you are not wrong. We just disagree.
Ive stated in alot of detail how I view him as a player. Dismiss it, or see the point Im making, its up to you. I accept that you rate him higher than I do, and I do not feel the need to convince you that he is average. To you, he isnt, and Im comfortable with that.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
That being said, you can also only judge what is put in front of you at any given time.
To date, all that can be judged RE Suarez is what he has done - not what he might one day do.
The catch is of course being big enough to say later on "He has changed my opinion" if a player goes on to really perform.
He most certainly was in the Top 5 prior to Ade
Berbatov
Kanoute
Keane
Defoe
Bent
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Fair enough. However if you in the future don't want to further discuss a topic I suggest not referring to those that disagree with you as "The GG Pitchfork Massive (...)hunting you down with burning crosses." and saying that "NONE of them are still trying to explain to me how f#cking good he is anymore." Belittling those that disagree with you and making them sound like someone who don't defend their opinions and were just biased and ignorant to disagree with you tends to re-ignite discussions.
You complain about Arcspace (I think) making comments about your opinions to others while not wanting to actually discuss with you, sure your snipes at those who have disagreed with you in the past are no better?
Kingdawson
Banned
Arcspace is correct imho.
As a person i despise him but as a player he's very good. Very good approach play, can spot a pass before most, makes good runs, excellent work rate, excellent close control, actually has a footballing brain. His bad point is his diving and his finishing (which tbh is a big deal for a striker).
As a person i despise him but as a player he's very good. Very good approach play, can spot a pass before most, makes good runs, excellent work rate, excellent close control, actually has a footballing brain. His bad point is his diving and his finishing (which tbh is a big deal for a striker).