NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
Neither Dempsey or Siggy is renowned for their man marking capabilities
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The 'is this an example where we miss a Modric/Moutinho/Sahin type' thread
- Thread starter glorygloryeze
- Start date
Neither Dempsey or Siggy is renowned for their man marking capabilities
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
If you think he mostly passes square then methinks you have not being paying enough attention
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Wow, did you really just type that out about Scholes?
colin fishwick
Reto Ziegler
Yesterday he played more forward than normal, most as a rule he does. He plays more than almost any other midfield player in the country . There is a stat about it . Watch him next time most of his passes are when he is not under pressure and he plays a 5 yard square pass. He is very good at making himself available, but he nearly always goes for the safe option.
He gets, very, very few assists and always has done.
I
indianspur
Guest
i know that, but they have the ability to close down, hassle, deny space. None of this happened yesterday, Scholes was allowed the freedom to pick up the ball and dictate the play with barely any Spurs player near him
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
sorry mate, i dont believe...olive branch i can offer is that you have taken that stat out of context..but in reality i dont think that stat exists at all to show that he plays more side and back ways passes than any other in the absence of playing significantly just as man forward or long diagonals
dude honestly, this scholes thing could really a a poison chalice.
I think it best you arm yourself to the teeth with figures before coming out with something as controversial as that
and as for the assist thing...what do you think of the likes of modric....., thudd....xabi alonso etc etc
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Even if Dempsey or Sigurdson aren't the best man markers, just having someone close him down the whole time would have helped, and he is always a liability in a challenge you'll probably get a few free kicks off 50/50 balls.
Scholes probably shouldn't have been on the pitch for the last hour anyway. Two clear bookings missed by the ref, Foy clearly didn't want to make any big decisions yesterday. Net result = three points for us so it doesn't matter.
It was clearly out lack of an out where we struggled yesterday, though one reason for this was how our full backs - especially Vertonghen - were failing to pin down their wingers. I don't think it's necessarily the full backs faults, more the fact that they really were hugging the touch lines and our winning gameplay was to lock the centre. So Lennon and Bale got sucked out to help cover the flanks and that just left Defoe up front.
Don't understand why the majority of Friedals clearances were just long balls. We also should have been a bit cuter in building the play like we did in the first half, rather than long balls the whole time.
Hudd offered a better pass when he came on and I thought he played our best ball in that last thirty minutes, setting Defoe through. Was even a result of a tackle too!
Scholes probably shouldn't have been on the pitch for the last hour anyway. Two clear bookings missed by the ref, Foy clearly didn't want to make any big decisions yesterday. Net result = three points for us so it doesn't matter.
It was clearly out lack of an out where we struggled yesterday, though one reason for this was how our full backs - especially Vertonghen - were failing to pin down their wingers. I don't think it's necessarily the full backs faults, more the fact that they really were hugging the touch lines and our winning gameplay was to lock the centre. So Lennon and Bale got sucked out to help cover the flanks and that just left Defoe up front.
Don't understand why the majority of Friedals clearances were just long balls. We also should have been a bit cuter in building the play like we did in the first half, rather than long balls the whole time.
Hudd offered a better pass when he came on and I thought he played our best ball in that last thirty minutes, setting Defoe through. Was even a result of a tackle too!
I don't know, fact is we were missing several options as people correctly pointed out (Parker/Kaboul/Ade/Benny) and this team is not finished in terms of how AVB wants to set up.
Would having a world class midfielder as an option yesterday helped, sure, quality always improves you. Is it exactly why we sat too deep, not sure about that.
It's funny, people seemed to talk about AVB and his 4-3-3 and highline and that was the only way he played, certainly doesn't seems so to me. He does try to create a passing game (on the floor), use of wide midfielders and FBs, and similar to Jose, seems to like physically strong players (Dembele, Dempsey, Vert all can be pretty strong on the ball).
To what some others said, we need to work on retaining possession under pressure and get better at providing an out ball that creates a hreat for the opponent as well.
Would having a world class midfielder as an option yesterday helped, sure, quality always improves you. Is it exactly why we sat too deep, not sure about that.
It's funny, people seemed to talk about AVB and his 4-3-3 and highline and that was the only way he played, certainly doesn't seems so to me. He does try to create a passing game (on the floor), use of wide midfielders and FBs, and similar to Jose, seems to like physically strong players (Dembele, Dempsey, Vert all can be pretty strong on the ball).
To what some others said, we need to work on retaining possession under pressure and get better at providing an out ball that creates a hreat for the opponent as well.
Kingdawson
Banned
I love our new system and i'm happy AVB has decided to convert us to a more direct team. Before we had flair players like Luka and VDV that have great build up play but not penetrative enough imo. VDV to an extent was but he declined near the end and was trying to do more then he could actually do. Now i don't even rate Dempsey much but he's the sort of player that is extremley effective in this league. He's a technically better and far more versatile version of Tim Cahill and kEVIN nolan in that he doesn't offer a great deal in general play but will always be a goal threat.
Sigurddson imo has it all and i'm confident he'll show it soon enough and Dembele is pretty self explainitory. All these guys are direct players which will see us grab a lot of good smash and grab away wins. Like i've said countless times Modric type players are vastly overrated in this league.
Sigurddson imo has it all and i'm confident he'll show it soon enough and Dembele is pretty self explainitory. All these guys are direct players which will see us grab a lot of good smash and grab away wins. Like i've said countless times Modric type players are vastly overrated in this league.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
KD our new system only really works for away games and he set up is great. It is no coincidence our away form is better than home form even our performances are ten fold better.
AVB however has some work to do for our home games now we may not have the personnel for home games and someone like Moutinho is imperative for us. Need some creativity some fluidity - home games we are still fairly poor.
AVB however has some work to do for our home games now we may not have the personnel for home games and someone like Moutinho is imperative for us. Need some creativity some fluidity - home games we are still fairly poor.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
We still might do. On loan only at Liverpool, and we have our special relationship with Madrid now.
I think yesterday we missed Adebayor as an outlet, and Parker as a wise head to bring on for the last 20 mins.
We miss the Moutinho/Sahin player more in home games where we have a lot of possession but lack a bit of guile and vision to craft open chances.
Well, after next Thursday we have two home games in a row to test your theory. I am hoping that our home performances thus far can be improved on. If they can then the sky's the limit!
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
CF, I have to say Scholes is one of the best midfielders I seen up there for me with Hoddle and Gascoigne on how influential he is, I don't get that stat. I agree stop him and you very effectively weaken Utd. Modric on the other hand (imo) is vastly overated. Can't understand why Real Madrid paid £33million for him and let Cazorla go to Arsenal for £15m he's an absolute gem. As for hold up not sure Ade would be what spurs fans are looking for to relieve pressure certainly not on his own - poor first touch often resulted in the other team getting the ball back too soon. Berbatov up front, that's a different story.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
I think we will beat villa - dont know what the following home game after that is.
Chelsea after the international break.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
There is an International Break? We just fudgein had one.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
I don't think we've got the midfield balance quite right yet, although it is looking better. The problem in the second half has rightly been identified as a lack of an effective out-ball, and considering the way we have relied on Modrić in terms of retaining and recycling possession, I don't think it's surprising in the context of yesterday's game.
Sandro is great at winning the ball, but not always so brilliant at keeping hold of it, and tends to be at his most effective when he plays get-and-give and releases quickly; Dembele is great at holding into the ball while he's dribbling it, but seems to get caught in possession quite often when he isn't on the move. What we're missing, I think, is that element Modrić provided so brilliantly, of being able to hold a position in the middle third, giving other players time to take up useful positions ahead of the ball, as well as being able to find them with a pass afterwards.
I'm not sure any of our other options is really a complete answer to the conundrum as things stand; far too many of our short and medium-length passes are going astray. It's really galling that we lost out on Moutinho in that respect; I think with him, Sandro and Dembele, we'd have a far better-balanced unit. Even so, one can see that we have progressed despite the reservations, and I think it's to everyone's credit.
On the issue of Scholes being made out to be some sort of poor man's Jermaine Jenas, I couldn't agree, either; he's always been an influential player for me, and I thought he ran things for them in the second half yesterday.
Sandro is great at winning the ball, but not always so brilliant at keeping hold of it, and tends to be at his most effective when he plays get-and-give and releases quickly; Dembele is great at holding into the ball while he's dribbling it, but seems to get caught in possession quite often when he isn't on the move. What we're missing, I think, is that element Modrić provided so brilliantly, of being able to hold a position in the middle third, giving other players time to take up useful positions ahead of the ball, as well as being able to find them with a pass afterwards.
I'm not sure any of our other options is really a complete answer to the conundrum as things stand; far too many of our short and medium-length passes are going astray. It's really galling that we lost out on Moutinho in that respect; I think with him, Sandro and Dembele, we'd have a far better-balanced unit. Even so, one can see that we have progressed despite the reservations, and I think it's to everyone's credit.
On the issue of Scholes being made out to be some sort of poor man's Jermaine Jenas, I couldn't agree, either; he's always been an influential player for me, and I thought he ran things for them in the second half yesterday.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
I think UTD will find it difficult from here on, teams will definitely designate a man to mark Scholes to take him out the game and say try and beat us.
Defoe was definitely out on his feet for the last 20mins and I would have taken him off for Townsend, and put him on the left and played Bale upfront.
This was a game we were lacking a premiership standard #9 striker to replace Defoe. Imagine having someone to come of the bench to take up the challenge.
Its clear that players like Siggs, Dembele and Demps cannot cover the striker role for these sort of instances as they just do not have the pace. Then again, it would have been great had Adebayor or Leandro Damiao
were available hey.
Defoe was definitely out on his feet for the last 20mins and I would have taken him off for Townsend, and put him on the left and played Bale upfront.
This was a game we were lacking a premiership standard #9 striker to replace Defoe. Imagine having someone to come of the bench to take up the challenge.
Its clear that players like Siggs, Dembele and Demps cannot cover the striker role for these sort of instances as they just do not have the pace. Then again, it would have been great had Adebayor or Leandro Damiao
were available hey.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I think UTD will find it difficult from here on, teams will definitely designate a man to mark Scholes to take him out the game and say try and beat us.
Defoe was definitely out on his feet for the last 20mins and I would have taken him off for Townsend, and put him on the left and played Bale upfront.
This was a game we were lacking a premiership standard #9 striker to replace Defoe. Imagine having someone to come of the bench to take up the challenge.
Its clear that players like Siggs, Dembele and Demps cannot cover the striker role for these sort of instances as they just do not have the pace. Then again, it would have been great had Adebayor or Leandro Damiao
I thought that too.
colin fishwick
Reto Ziegler
There is a stat, which when I have time shows he plays a lot of sideways passes. There is also a stat which shows he only has about 35 assists in the last 10 years.
I love the way Scholes has been elevated to this world class player in the last couple of years.
He was nearly always pretty cr ap for England and outshone by foreign players.
He is a good player and a very GHod one for his age, but he is not and has never has been the player he is made out to be.
There was no golden generation , it was all hype.
At the moment he is a neat tidy player, but he does not have the skill of Modric for example. He is miles behind Fabregas, he does not posses the skill of any of the really top foreign players. They can do so much more with the ball.
He does simple well and very often now. he used to score, but fair enough that has gone with age.
When he played for England , he was not liked and everyone wanted him dropped, people forget.