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The Goon Thread
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
An excellent post.
Wenger will never be in trouble with that board unless they consistently fell out of the top 4. As long as they get in the mix every year then he makes the shareholders plenty of money and keeps the sponsers happy. They don't have to win anything in order to please those people becuase the money being raked in does that enough. and they also have the perfect fall guy in Wenger who will never outwardly criticise the board and is willing to accept the fans criticisms if it places less burden on the players and club as a whole.
Despite paying off the stadium, they do not have the access to continued finances that could allow them to compete with City and Chelsea on the the sorts of signings that would see them on a par consistently with both those sides. I fully agree that the Ozil signing was nothing other than to appease the masses and quieten down the growing displeasure amongst the ranks and it was fortunate for them that it coincided with us selling Bale as it gave their fanbase a double fillip.
I personally feel that when Wenger goes, the current board will have a spell of in fighting in order to attain the dominant position. I don't see anyone there being quick to sell as they will feel that with the right appointment they will be able to continue Wenger's work. Whether that means Kroenke going and Uzmanov being the more prominant face is difficult to say but I definitely feel that once the consistent face of Wenger has gone, an element of calmness and balance will leave with him.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I disagree. I think the quality of the league is excellent, it is the quality of the old top four that has deteriorated.
Nigeyman
Chris Armstrong
I will admit I have a peek at Arsemania from time to time....
but I would never sign up and pretend to be one of them....if I was inclined I would sign up and openly admit my allegience to the mighty spurs....no point really I dont want to debate football/issues with them.....have only ever had a few decent converstations with goons without the nonsense creeping in.
Now obviously Luda if you keep posting pictures then you can do one! if you want to talk footie and get my views on their team then no problem....but just stop pretending and come clean fella....
Come out Luda!
Luda2013
Jamie Redknapp
True. Teams like Southampton, West Brom and Cardiff play some good stuff these days
Of course Wenger’s budget is much smaller than his rivals. Those numbers from the guardian are almost irrelevant when considering Wenger’s budget against his rivals.
Arsenal are profit maximisers. Practically all their rivals are trophy maximisers.
Most clubs try to maximise revenue sources in order to re-invest those funds into their playing squad to maximise their chances of footballing success. Arsenal on the other hand will only spend on their playing squad if it directly or indirectly means that it is financially profitable for the club as a business. Hence, not all of the money made by Arsenal is available as part of Wenger’s “budget”.
However, this “problem” for Wenger is compounded even more by the fact that the likes of Abramovic are willing to take on massive losses to ensure that they can dwarf whatever Wenger can spend on his squad.
So to summarise, it doesn’t matter how Arsenal perform as a business, as this has very little relation to what Wenger’s budget will be. As this is set arbitrarily.
Anyways, since you asked for some numbers, here they are:
This graph from the Swissramble shows Arsenal’s pre-tax profits (up to 2012, I couldn’t find an up to date one). The following table shows arsenal’s net transfer spend (as well as everyone else’s) over the past 5 years (up to date).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...elsea-Manchester-United-net-spend-charts.html
You can clearly see even if Arsenal decided to break even, as opposed to making small profits year on year, they still need to spend an exponential amount more to match the spending of the other top 4 sides.
Another source:
Arsenal net spend = £11.1 million.
Chelsea net spend = £328.7 million.
Emirates Marketing Project net spend = £509.6 million.
Firstly, I’m a massive fan of what Levy has achieved. I can’t understand why he gets the level of criticism that he does. Levy, like Wenger has performed absolute miracles to get us to where we are.
You say Wenger would not have “made it” at other big clubs. I totally disagree. I suspect he would probably have gone from club to club like most other top managers. i.e. Capello, Mourinho, Guardiola. He would’ve won titles some years and in the year’s where he didn’t, he probably would’ve got sacked and moved onto another top job.
Wenger hasn’t won anything in almost a decade, yet the likes of PSG and Real Madrid always seem to be chasing him. That for me is a testament to the fact that the top clubs know that he is right up there with the best manager’s in the world. Can you think of another manager that has gone so long without winning something, who is still as highly demanded as Wenger is? It just shows, the people in the know (ie. Those who hire and fire managers, a la Alan Sugar) still massively rate Wenger.
Your next point is that it is “expected” that Arsenal should finish above us in a top 4 spot. I agree with this, but only to a certain extent. It is correct that they spend more on footballing personnel than us. However our overall spend in the past few years is closing that gap and I expect us to finish above them at least a couple of times over the next few years. It is a credit to Wenger that he has beaten us in the league every time over the past few years.
On the other hand, Liverpool have outspent Arsenal overall throughout the 2000’s, yet Arsenal have performed significantly better than them. Liverpool’s wage bill vs Arsenal’s is shown in the graph below. When you combine this with the transfer spend table from above, you can see just how well Wenger has performed.
You may say it is “inexcusable”, but the Arsenal board probably disagree. As long as Wenger can maintain the status quo, I suspect the Arsenal board are probably very happy. Also, Arsenal have finished 2nd place in many competitions since 2005; they haven't been that far off from winning something in the past decade.
Re lucrative tournaments vs less lucrative ones, Wenger is not the only manager choosing to go for the more financially beneficial route. It seems a growing trend amongst most clubs to follow this route. Us included.
And your final point is that Arsenal have a huge income level that they do not re-invest. In my opinion, this should probably be one of the biggest debating points in football.
Arsenal are probably valued at around £1 billion. Yet, they make around £20-£25 average pre-tax profits over the past few years (depending on what your source is). Is it really that inexcusable that the Arsenal board take a few million out of their £1 billion business every year? Compared to other businesses of similar value, I suspect this figure isn’t that high.
Finally, Wenger is basically a CEO of a £1 billion company. I’m sure the board probably see it this way too. Hence, his salary. In addition, if Wenger were to suddenly become available, I wouldn’t mind seeing us offer him this kind of money to get him. Such is the genius of the man.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
I suppose that depends on who you think Arsenal's rivals are.
They certainly have a lot less money than Utd, Chelsea, City, Real, etc but they're not Arsenal's rivals. I suspect Arsenal earn a huge amount more than all the other CL knockout fodder also-rans like Zenit, Olympiakos, etc.
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Does anyone know who Chesney was making the gesture at?
I thought it obviously be Wheelchair as after all it is the international symbol for Jack.
But wasn't he playing?
So I've got it narrowed down to Henry, Campbell and Walcott. Could be any of them I suppose.
The Arsenal fans (and most of the media) seem to think Arsenal's rivals are the likes of Utd, City, Real etc. Hence the regular criticism of Arsenal and Wenger when they perform poorly when compared to those clubs.
In my opinion, they should really be compared to like the likes of Liverpool and us. And the likes of Dortmund, Atletico etc in Europe. And when you do compare Arsenal against these teams, they have performed exceptionally well. So much so that people seem to think they are competing with a higher category of teams.
The problem for Wenger is, when you look at rankings such as the UEFA club coefficients and forbes lists, they are ranked up there with Europe's elite, and so the on-pitch comparisons with these other elite clubs is inevitable.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
...and what have all those clubs in bold done in the last 8 years...?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
hired a nutter as manager
seasoned the chip on their shoulder about their obviously superior "rivals"
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
:lol:
yet do they wish they were Arsenal instead? probably.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Only for the money; but my point was that even comparing with those clubs, Arsenal and especially Arsene Wenger compare poorly. Atleti are in a league where two clubs carev up titles between them and where they can generate much less money due to the way the TV money is distributed, plus where the league isn't as popular overseas so less money generally anyway. Yet they have won two Europa leagues in last 3 years, plus a Copa. All with loads of debt on theor heads as well.
Dortmund are effectively in a league of one, but they too have won multiple trophies.
Arsenal can out-bid both clubs for most players, but I bet 8 times out of 10 (especially in the case of Dortmund) if they were to go head-to-head in a knock-out cup game (or even a cup final), either Dortmund or Atletico Madrid would win.
The last 8/9 years prove that imo
- Arsenal cannot win the Europa league unlike the likes of at.madrid and us because they always, and i mean always, get into the latter rounds of the Champions League.
- the Cup competitions are just that. Cups. Arsenal have got close in the last 9 years. If they had that extra bit of luck, they could've done it.
- winning in a league of one is much easier than winning in the epl. which has now become a league of 3. all dortmund needed was bayern to have an off year. arsenal need utd, chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project to have off years.
- arsenal have played dortmund four times in the past 3 years. arsenal have come out top overall in these encounters.
- arsenal are above at.madrid and dortmund in the uefa coefficients. which is a ranking based on the performances of the clubs in the past 5 years.
- the Cup competitions are just that. Cups. Arsenal have got close in the last 9 years. If they had that extra bit of luck, they could've done it.
- winning in a league of one is much easier than winning in the epl. which has now become a league of 3. all dortmund needed was bayern to have an off year. arsenal need utd, chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project to have off years.
- arsenal have played dortmund four times in the past 3 years. arsenal have come out top overall in these encounters.
- arsenal are above at.madrid and dortmund in the uefa coefficients. which is a ranking based on the performances of the clubs in the past 5 years.
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The glory is where the money is at tho, no?
players and clubs chase the money, and therefore the highest standard of competition is where there is most money.