The Bigger Picture - aka we've been here before

[Grays_1890]

When you change managers regularly then there will always be players from 3 or 4 managers ago...

Hopefully come the end of the summer window we would have purged the squad of the last of the Hitchen era buys and then bar potentially Son & Davies (who i don't think will be sold) the longest serving players will be Paratichi's first signings

Agreed but even by those timescales some have been here too long, we know we can't rely on Royal for any role in this style or others, he is just too high or too low, no level of every week being a 7 or 8 unfortunately.

We need to think about the Son situation as he has regressed badly IMO, I think we carried him to goals this year rather than other way round in previous years, but equally realising he is streaky, this is bad for him. We can't also kid ourselves that he is getting any younger, the best sides out there make cutting players off an art form, we need to learn it

 

[Mcfee]

I don't recall many questioning Romero or Maddison as the picks at the start of the season. A few questioned Son alright.

Romero I think is actually a good choice. He's one of the few in our squad I'd want with me in a battle. Who else do we have? We have a lack of characters and lack of leaders in the squad.

Which brings me to another point. The players will get brick for not doing what Ange is asking from some fans. What Ange is asking is extremely hard to do. It takes massive courage to take a positive first touch and pass forward like he was asking last night. The ability to do it may dissipate over a season. Ange is asking them to take risks which could go wrong. And if it does, you have 60,000 people moaning and look a proper mug in front of millions on TV. The natural human reaction is to take that extra touch or play that safer pass if you're not certain you can pull off the positive pass forward. You look better but the team loses its opportunity to slice through the opposition. It's not mentally weak or not giving a fudge or whatever - it's just being human. What Ange is asking takes a toll and needs very gifted and mentally strong players.

I think it’s been good for Romero.
I didn’t have all that much time for Maddison before he joined us, saw him as flashy but unreliable. After his first couple of months I figured I must’ve been wrong. But it turns out maybe not.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agreed but even by those timescales some have been here too long, we know we can't rely on Royal for any role in this style or others, he is just too high or too low, no level of every week being a 7 or 8 unfortunately.

We need to think about the Son situation as he has regressed badly IMO, I think we carried him to goals this year rather than other way round in previous years, but equally realising he is streaky, this is bad for him. We can't also kid ourselves that he is getting any younger, the best sides out there make cutting players off an art form, we need to learn it

We bang cut players off because the fans would have kittens
Look at the post quoting Kanes goals scored this season for example
A quality player leaves and does well so seen as bad by us rather than him and the club needed the change

 

[Lilbaz]

Agreed but even by those timescales some have been here too long, we know we can't rely on Royal for any role in this style or others, he is just too high or too low, no level of every week being a 7 or 8 unfortunately.

We need to think about the Son situation as he has regressed badly IMO, I think we carried him to goals this year rather than other way round in previous years, but equally realising he is streaky, this is bad for him. We can't also kid ourselves that he is getting any younger, the best sides out there make cutting players off an art form, we need to learn it

We sell him we lose half our fan base. Not happening.

 

[harr1984]

So what's the answer? Burn it all down and start again, again?

People have pointed it out already, Arteta finished 8th in his first two seasons. It's down to us the fan base and the entire club to show some courage and back the guy.

We're supporters aren't we?

Exactly. This is why I always thought we would come crashing down to a more realistic position earlier in the season, there was no way we wasn't going to have a rough patch. I still have a feeling he's going to do great things here, but rather obviously he needs to be given the tools which I'm more confident of him having than his predecessors as our recruitment has massively improved but we need another 2-3 windows for it to reap real benefits I think.

 

[Grays_1890]

We sell him we lose half our fan base. Not happening.

But should happen

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We sell him we lose half our fan base. Not happening.

But get more fans by being better .. surely that’s the answer

And it’s not happening because we’re touring Asia again

But that’s the lack of bravery

 

[Lemonade Money]

The DNA, historically, is that of a cup team, but cups don’t matter anymore.

It’s about sustained support over a league season, it’s a different requirement.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Our passing looked loads better earlier in the season. Liverpool at home springs to mind, in the first half we more than held our own and played some great one touch football that actually cut through them. Always baffles me when people think just having possession means you’re dominating. It’s dominating if you are putting them under pressure, forcing them into mistakes, creating chances etc. but our passing has got worse, that’s something that should as the season goes on not regress.

 

[Mikey10]

But get more fans by being better .. surely that’s the answer

And it’s not happening because we’re touring Asia again

But that’s the lack of bravery

Putting business above football (which I believe is the literal translation of Audere est Facere).

 

[Lilbaz]

But get more fans by being better .. surely that’s the answer

And it’s not happening because we’re touring Asia again

But that’s the lack of bravery

Or just get a quality alternative and let them fight it out. If son starts on the bench thats fine. We don't need to sell him.

 

[fernadez]

There was an article about implenting tactics I read somewhere, apparently it's basically split into three stages

1. Players have the general idea and play with no restraints
2. They actually understand the tactics but this causes them to overthink everything and regress
3. The tactics become ingrained and automated and no thinking is required, resulting in the shakles again coming off

Stage 2 we have been at with Jose, Conte and now Ange. Arteta, Klopp and Pep all went through it.

Only question is whether the manager gets to see it through to the other side, and if so are the squad good enough to implement it in a winning way.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Or just get a quality alternative and let them fight it out. If son starts on the bench thats fine. We don't need to sell him.

We won’t sell him

 

[Grays_1890]

There was an article about implenting tactics I read somewhere, apparently it's basically split into three stages

1. Players have the general idea and play with no restraints
2. They actually understand the tactics but this causes them to overthink everything and regress
3. The tactics become ingrained and automated and no thinking is required, resulting in the shakles again coming off

Stage 2 we have been at with Jose, Conte and now Ange. Arteta, Klopp and Pep all went through it.

Only question is whether the manager gets to see it through to the other side, and if so are the squad good enough to implement it in a winning way.

Yeh you can see that TBF, there is also a level of fatigue setting in here, mentally as much as anything IMO. The key to anything like this is to refresh and improve to keep those stages in check and generally new sets of ears and enthusiasm picks up and runs with it and pulls others up and along. We need summer badly

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Our passing looked loads better earlier in the season. Liverpool at home springs to mind, in the first half we more than held our own and played some great one touch football that actually cut through them. Always baffles me when people think just having possession means you’re dominating. It’s dominating if you are putting them under pressure, forcing them into mistakes, creating chances etc. but our passing has got worse, that’s something that should as the season goes on not regress.

But Liverpool are a defensive mess and allow us to play because they attack you
We did play good football that day before the cards meant they went low block and we got the lucky break

Some of our best passing was Arsenal away imo… again a team that attacked us allowed us to play too

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeh you can see that TBF, there is also a level of fatigue setting in here, mentally as much as anything IMO. The key to anything like this is to refresh and improve to keep those stages in check and generally new sets of ears and enthusiasm picks up and runs with it and pulls others up and along. We need summer badly

The mentality piece is huge
We can’t see what a player is thinking and in the speed of the moment that split second can be why the ball is gone
When it’s ingrained you can get control
Ange is convinced of that because he has seen that all before

 

[Jurgen the German]

But Liverpool are a defensive mess and allow us to play because they attack you
We did play good football that day before the cards meant they went low block and we got the lucky break

Some of our best passing was Arsenal away imo… again a team that attacked us allowed us to play too

Yes Arsenal away was another one. How did I forget that one?! Tougher opponents in an away game also.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes Arsenal away was another one. How did I forget that one?! Tougher opponents in an away game also.

Yep
But at team that goes toe to toe with you

 

[JerusalemMan]

The mentality piece is huge
We can’t see what a player is thinking and in the speed of the moment that split second can be why the ball is gone
When it’s ingrained you can get control
Ange is convinced of that because he has seen that all before

Which is presumably why he was going berserk at the players in the first half for repeatedly passing backwards.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't recall many questioning Romero or Maddison as the picks at the start of the season. A few questioned Son alright.

Romero I think is actually a good choice. He's one of the few in our squad I'd want with me in a battle. Who else do we have? We have a lack of characters and lack of leaders in the squad.

Which brings me to another point. The players will get brick for not doing what Ange is asking from some fans. What Ange is asking is extremely hard to do. It takes massive courage to take a positive first touch and pass forward like he was asking last night. The ability to do it may dissipate over a season. Ange is asking them to take risks which could go wrong. And if it does, you have 60,000 people moaning and look a proper mug in front of millions on TV. The natural human reaction is to take that extra touch or play that safer pass if you're not certain you can pull off the positive pass forward. You look better but the team loses its opportunity to slice through the opposition. It's not mentally weak or not giving a fudge or whatever - it's just being human. What Ange is asking takes a toll and needs very gifted and mentally strong players.

Very good post.

It takes gifted and mentally strong players. It probably also takes time. Time to grow that trust, to grow the belief that it's OK to take that risk.

Growing that at a time of difficult results, players struggling for form is difficult. That's part of why it takes time. That's part of the reason why there will be inconsistency.

There was an article about implenting tactics I read somewhere, apparently it's basically split into three stages

1. Players have the general idea and play with no restraints
2. They actually understand the tactics but this causes them to overthink everything and regress
3. The tactics become ingrained and automated and no thinking is required, resulting in the shakles again coming off

Stage 2 we have been at with Jose, Conte and now Ange. Arteta, Klopp and Pep all went through it.

Only question is whether the manager gets to see it through to the other side, and if so are the squad good enough to implement it in a winning way.

Another very good post and related to the one above I think.

Not sure about the evidence behind a claim like that and there's probably more to it including new signings etc. But we've seen that kind of fluctuation between form and suffering before a system is properly instilled and the right players are in place many times.