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The Bigger Picture - aka we've been here before

braineclipse said:
I think we've seen great football in almost every game. But just in periods. And mixed in too many moments of poor defending and set piece weaknesses.

Even if just the set pice stuff could have been sorted out the last couple of months would have looked very different.

I hope the summer will bring a lot of activity, in and out. I hope some real tough decisions are made and followed through on.
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You asked for it...

www.theguardian.com

Ange Postecoglou insists ‘change has to happen’ at Tottenham this summer

The head coach said Spurs ‘still got a long way to go’ and it is believed the club are prepared to sell Højbjerg, Lo Celso and Gil in the summer
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
"prepared to sell" lol

That's not even the bare minimum of players to must go this summer.
 
I'm content with the idea of his being given another season. I guess I see it going one of two ways: either he'll get a few more players of the type he needs to keep the squad afloat playing his system (ability to maintain possession and momentum as a unit when under pressure high in the opposition half being key), in which case I'd see a sort of damped version of this season happening (with the expectation that we'll see an improvement in our goal-difference by the end), or we'll have the familiar compromises on signings, quickly start struggling to perform again, continue shipping goals from set-pieces and counters like it's going out of fashion, and he'll be gone by Christmas. At the moment, it's about evens for me. I will certainly want to see us managing to play decent football for more than 10 or 15 minutes out of any given 90. I haven't enjoyed watching us in 2024.
 
The reactions of some to the Pool defeat, which was not a fun watch, makes me more convinced that we would do well - as would ‘the powers that be’ at the club - to remember the bigger picture. To back the notion that lead to hiring Ange. To let him have the time he needs to see if this thing can work.
 
90291Spur said:
The reactions of some to the Pool defeat, which was not a fun watch, makes me more convinced that we would do well - as would ‘the powers that be’ at the club - to remember the bigger picture. To back the notion that lead to hiring Ange. To let him have the time he needs to see if this thing can work.
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i agree we should, not sure a section of our fans are willing to though.
 
Baleforce said:
More drivel from Wilson, ignoring that someone else managed the team for the last third of the season.
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Did those people not inherit the disaster
Zone left after Conte’s scorched earth exit? To my mind they did. And they were also almost as inexperienced as top flight bosses as possible.
 
90291Spur said:
Did those people not inherit the disaster
Zone left after Conte’s scorched earth exit? To my mind they did. And they were also almost as inexperienced as top flight bosses as possible.
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His point was the bounce came from Conte being gone, as I read it, but that wasn't the case at all.

The good start to the season was due to Ange, his coaching team, and the squad. Conte was a long time out of the system.
 
you dont get a bounce when its the start of a new season.

He drastically overhauled our playing tactics, personnel and we lost our MVP of years or ever. There is a lot of over re-acting at the moment. its 4 defeats in a row. its bad defensively. But we have a base to build on. he needed a season to assess the squad. he predicted bad days. This will be his first summer where he will know what this team needs from what he has.

Some fans need to learn patience. 5th will be a good finish. its a shame about CL, and we still could have got it. But its a good solid first season.
 
Sandman said:
you dont get a bounce when its the start of a new season.

He drastically overhauled our playing tactics, personnel and we lost our MVP of years or ever. There is a lot of over re-acting at the moment. its 4 defeats in a row. its bad defensively. But we have a base to build on. he needed a season to assess the squad. he predicted bad days. This will be his first summer where he will know what this team needs from what he has.

Some fans need to learn patience. 5th will be a good finish. its a shame about CL, and we still could have got it. But its a good solid first season.
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If we get 5th and Europa, in the medium to long term that could be better than 4th and CL. Theoretically less great teams to play and theoretically the chance of going deep in the competition.
 
Sandman said:
you dont get a bounce when its the start of a new season.

He drastically overhauled our playing tactics, personnel and we lost our MVP of years or ever. There is a lot of over re-acting at the moment. its 4 defeats in a row. its bad defensively. But we have a base to build on. he needed a season to assess the squad. he predicted bad days. This will be his first summer where he will know what this team needs from what he has.

Some fans need to learn patience. 5th will be a good finish. its a shame about CL, and we still could have got it. But its a good solid first season.
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We have a base to build on? Usually when saying this in footballing terms you're talking about the defence:D

In all seriousness I do agree with your overall point. But it really bugs me when I see people claim there is over reaction when I have not seen any such thing. I'd say regardless of league position we have been pretty poor for longer than we have been good under Ange. Our defensive play is a joke.

Yet I have seen no Ange out protests on here or at the stadium, everyone who has been critical has acknowledged he deserves time. But at the same time, when watching the same inept performances time and time again people are right to ask questions about what and why is it going wrong and right to question Ange. He isn't some sort of infallible GHod, he has had success in inferior leagues playing attacking football. Great, let's roll the dice and see how it goes. But the Premier League is the most competitive, relentless, unforgiving league and giving him more time doesn't equate to us getting better. Football isn't an exact science.

We could make great strides under his tenure next season. We might not. Nobody knows. But questioning what on earth we have been watching in the main for the past few months (save for the occasional 45 minutes here and there at best) that has been deteriorating at an alarming rate is not an over reaction when the same people are accepting it is too early in the 'project' to think about pulling the trigger.....
 
harr1984 said:
We have a base to build on? Usually when saying this in footballing terms you're talking about the defence:D

In all seriousness I do agree with your overall point. But it really bugs me when I see people claim there is over reaction when I have not seen any such thing. I'd say regardless of league position we have been pretty poor for longer than we have been good under Ange. Our defensive play is a joke.

Yet I have seen no Ange out protests on here or at the stadium, everyone who has been critical has acknowledged he deserves time. But at the same time, when watching the same inept performances time and time again people are right to ask questions about what and why is it going wrong and right to question Ange. He isn't some sort of infallible GHod, he has had success in inferior leagues playing attacking football. Great, let's roll the dice and see how it goes. But the Premier League is the most competitive, relentless, unforgiving league and giving him more time doesn't equate to us getting better. Football isn't an exact science.

We could make great strides under his tenure next season. We might not. Nobody knows. But questioning what on earth we have been watching in the main for the past few months (save for the occasional 45 minutes here and there at best) that has been deteriorating at an alarming rate is not an over reaction when the same people are accepting it is too early in the 'project' to think about pulling the trigger.....
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Great post.

Sometimes, discourse is reduced to an absolute stance on something when there is a lot of grey. It’s fine to say Ange deserves time but the signs right now are worrying. Bar the macarons on Talksport or the socials and I think one poster here, I’ve not seen anyone want Ange out.

But it’d be mad to pretend everything is rosy. I just heard a stat that we’ve conceded an average of two goals per game since the 1-4 v Chelsea. That’s pretty damning if true. You can’t be successful leaking that many goals.
 
harr1984 said:
We have a base to build on? Usually when saying this in footballing terms you're talking about the defence:D

In all seriousness I do agree with your overall point. But it really bugs me when I see people claim there is over reaction when I have not seen any such thing. I'd say regardless of league position we have been pretty poor for longer than we have been good under Ange. Our defensive play is a joke.

Yet I have seen no Ange out protests on here or at the stadium, everyone who has been critical has acknowledged he deserves time. But at the same time, when watching the same inept performances time and time again people are right to ask questions about what and why is it going wrong and right to question Ange. He isn't some sort of infallible GHod, he has had success in inferior leagues playing attacking football. Great, let's roll the dice and see how it goes. But the Premier League is the most competitive, relentless, unforgiving league and giving him more time doesn't equate to us getting better. Football isn't an exact science.

We could make great strides under his tenure next season. We might not. Nobody knows. But questioning what on earth we have been watching in the main for the past few months (save for the occasional 45 minutes here and there at best) that has been deteriorating at an alarming rate is not an over reaction when the same people are accepting it is too early in the 'project' to think about pulling the trigger.....
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What base did Pep
Build his first season on
His team form was erratic
They ended up with 66 points which is what we’re likely too
They lost plenty, drew plenty and didn’t really build many consistent runs. The league was weaker too and they finished 3rd with those 66 points
And they spent a record amount of money at the time
It’s now called Pep’s adjustment season
And we’re the only team in history to finish above a pep side and NOT win the title
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
What base did Pep
Build his first season on
His team form was erratic
They ended up with 66 points which is what we’re likely too
They lost plenty, drew plenty and didn’t really build many consistent runs. The league was weaker too and they finished 3rd with those 66 points
And they spent a record amount of money at the time
It’s now called Pep’s adjustment season
And we’re the only team in history to finish above a pep side and NOT win the title
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I’m not really buying the comparisons with early Pep and Klopp, to be honest.

City could go out and get whoever they wanted and have ended up with a minimum of two outstanding players for every position. Liverpool went out and spent massively on two key players who made all the difference. Both clubs could attract players that we probably can’t.

The comparisons don’t really stack up for me, therefore, as the trajectory for us is likely to be very different.
 
Mikey10 said:
I’m not really buying the comparisons with Pep and Klopp, to be honest.

City could go out and get whoever they wanted and have ended up with a minimum of two outstanding players for every position. Liverpool went out and spent massively on two key players who made all the difference. Both clubs can attract players that we probably can’t.

The comparison ñs don’t really stack up for me, therefore, as the trajectory for us is likely to be very different.
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Pool didn’t though when Klopp started
Arsenal didn’t either
It’s worth comparing to get the context
What pool did was ship out players brought brought for previous managers
Benteke was signed the what Klopp joined by sold by him in his first summer window for a loss of £15m
That’s backing your manager
Arsenal sold players they actually brought for Arteta
It’s not fixed overnight
That’s why the comparison has to be made
But of course you can compare to others I’m sure
 
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