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The all new Juniors/on-loan thread 2013/14
- Thread starter Crawley
- Start date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iago_Falqué
He is 23 yo.
It is not the end but as Churchill said it could be the end of the beginning or even the opposite.
Well that didn't go according to plan. After a fantastic preseason and plenty of promise, the Chelsea U21 squad opened their league season with a disappointing home loss to Tottenham Hotspur. To be fair, Spurs were the best side in last season's U21 Premier League, but this ... this was not what we expected at all.
On paper, and without knowing any intimate details about the young Spurs facing us, Chelsea's strong lineup was confidence-inspiring. Nathaniel Chalobah and Nathan Ake anchored the back line - both are ready for bigger & better things, so surely they would be dominant. The always impressive Ruben Loftus-Cheek, growing bigger and stronger by the day, slotted into midfield alongside John Swift, while a pacey and exciting attacking band of Jeremie Boga, Josh McEachran, and Alex Kiwomya looked to operate behind new face Isaiah Brown who had been playing center forward ever since switching to Chelsea from West Bromwich Albion.
A nervous opening for Chelsea saw several mistakes from goalkeeper Mitchell Beeney, including a giveaway inside his own six-yard box, but fortunately Spurs failed to take advantage. As the boys settled down, they started to pick apart Spurs' high line. The pace of Kiwomya and Brown, combined with the dribbling prowess of Boga was proving unplayable for the visitors. Brown's finish was letting him down however, and the match remained 0-0.
It was another tremendous Boga run that would lead to the first goal. Slicing through five-six Spurs players, his pass for the breaking Ruben Loftus-Cheek was sweet as you like. Having established his position inside the area, the clumsy challenge on Loftus-Cheek was only ever going to result in a penalty kick. Josh McEachran made no mistake from the spot, calmly sending Scotland under-21 international Jordan Archer the wrong way, and Chelsea were ahead - unfortunately Josh was soon forced off with an ankle injury.
Worse yet, Chelsea pretty much imploded from there as things went downhill rather quickly. Spurs would score three times before the half was out then would add one more in the second, Chelsea looking ragged and disorganized throughout. The Chalobah - Aké partnership was not working well at all, perhaps both unable to kick the habits they've picked up playing midfield for most of last season. The trio of Harry Kane, Iago Falque, and Shaquile Coulthirst were dominant for Spurs, scoring all four goals between them and simply making us look rather bad. Perhaps only right back Andreas Christensen came away with any credit for Chelsea.
As Spurs dominated possession with high pressing and a high defensive line, Chelsea's gameplan revolved around trying to break with speed. And while they certainly have the talent and personnel to do so (especially after bringing on Islam Feruz in the second half), their passing and concentration kept letting them down repeatedly. It wouldn't surprise me if Chelsea's pass completion hovered around 60% for the day. Even when Spurs were reduced to 10 men in the 88th minute, they dominated proceedings and carved out two-three decent chances even.
Isaiah Brown would add a consolation goal just before the red card, but Chelsea were truly and soundly beaten. This is certainly not the on-field product that we were expecting from the under-21 squad, and most certainly not the start that we would've liked. Still, it's a long season and it can only get better from here.
http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/2013/8/9/4606748/u21-premier-league-chelsea-tottenham-hotspur-final-score-2-4-match-report
On paper, and without knowing any intimate details about the young Spurs facing us, Chelsea's strong lineup was confidence-inspiring. Nathaniel Chalobah and Nathan Ake anchored the back line - both are ready for bigger & better things, so surely they would be dominant. The always impressive Ruben Loftus-Cheek, growing bigger and stronger by the day, slotted into midfield alongside John Swift, while a pacey and exciting attacking band of Jeremie Boga, Josh McEachran, and Alex Kiwomya looked to operate behind new face Isaiah Brown who had been playing center forward ever since switching to Chelsea from West Bromwich Albion.
A nervous opening for Chelsea saw several mistakes from goalkeeper Mitchell Beeney, including a giveaway inside his own six-yard box, but fortunately Spurs failed to take advantage. As the boys settled down, they started to pick apart Spurs' high line. The pace of Kiwomya and Brown, combined with the dribbling prowess of Boga was proving unplayable for the visitors. Brown's finish was letting him down however, and the match remained 0-0.
It was another tremendous Boga run that would lead to the first goal. Slicing through five-six Spurs players, his pass for the breaking Ruben Loftus-Cheek was sweet as you like. Having established his position inside the area, the clumsy challenge on Loftus-Cheek was only ever going to result in a penalty kick. Josh McEachran made no mistake from the spot, calmly sending Scotland under-21 international Jordan Archer the wrong way, and Chelsea were ahead - unfortunately Josh was soon forced off with an ankle injury.
Worse yet, Chelsea pretty much imploded from there as things went downhill rather quickly. Spurs would score three times before the half was out then would add one more in the second, Chelsea looking ragged and disorganized throughout. The Chalobah - Aké partnership was not working well at all, perhaps both unable to kick the habits they've picked up playing midfield for most of last season. The trio of Harry Kane, Iago Falque, and Shaquile Coulthirst were dominant for Spurs, scoring all four goals between them and simply making us look rather bad. Perhaps only right back Andreas Christensen came away with any credit for Chelsea.
As Spurs dominated possession with high pressing and a high defensive line, Chelsea's gameplan revolved around trying to break with speed. And while they certainly have the talent and personnel to do so (especially after bringing on Islam Feruz in the second half), their passing and concentration kept letting them down repeatedly. It wouldn't surprise me if Chelsea's pass completion hovered around 60% for the day. Even when Spurs were reduced to 10 men in the 88th minute, they dominated proceedings and carved out two-three decent chances even.
Isaiah Brown would add a consolation goal just before the red card, but Chelsea were truly and soundly beaten. This is certainly not the on-field product that we were expecting from the under-21 squad, and most certainly not the start that we would've liked. Still, it's a long season and it can only get better from here.
http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/2013/8/9/4606748/u21-premier-league-chelsea-tottenham-hotspur-final-score-2-4-match-report
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Or maybe like a few other ex barcelona players he has taken his time to grow into the physical side of the game and put all aspects of his game together. Arteta was another like that.
Im not saying he will make it but i find it odd how some think if a player has not made the first team of a club by 20/21 then he will nevver make it.
Michu was on his way out of football a couple of years ago, studying at university and thinking of giving the game up before giving it another chance, he turned out ok and managed to score a few in the top league in both spain and england.
Im not saying Falque will do this, but maybe we are looking at players with attributes that we want and then are looking at coaching them to play in a distinct style(runnning all the way through the club) and then make the first team and be of useful purpose to the team.
This sort of attitude of hey he is not a star by 21 get rid i find a bit odd but sums up the youth of today who i feel do not want to work at things and see improvement.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
why?
will we play some of them in the first team? maybe we will but if they do not turn into the best player in the league over night and have a few quiet games, you know in the way we used to allow young players to do. Well if they do that they will probably just end up being sold to Cardiff
THFC6061
Paul Robinson
Yes.
Spurs Academy Players who tasted first team action in 2012-13:
Steven Caulker
Jake Livermore
Tom Carroll
Andros Townsend
Adam Smith
Ryan Mason
Jon Obika
Harry Kane
...in addition, Shaquile Coulthirst, Dean Parrett, Jordan Archer and Kevin Stewart gained first team squad experience without any playing time.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Most big teams with great academies end up selling some very talented young players that fail to establish themselves at the club because of a lot of competition.
It's a healthy sign. If we want to be a top quality club and we want to have our academy produce top players it's only normal that some of the academy players will be good, but not quite good enough to force their way into our top quality starting 11.
Meanwhile sales like Caulker can fund either new first team signings, more academy work or a combination of the two.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
None of them will ever make first team regulars, if caulker did not make it with us despite being capped for england(i know the are a lack of english centre backs)
Townsend looks as good as say ashley young to me, and carroll though i did not see todays game i know from what i have seen he could easily turn into a carrick type player. Their problem is that they will have quiet or poor games as a young players does sometimes, but we have become so obessed with the top 4 that we have thrown away a great chance to have a group of players coming through together and creating a core of home grown players who are invested in the club.
I remember reading about British cycling which has been a success story of the last few years, and how the younger cyclists were inspired to reach the levels of the winners in Athens and because they trainned with them everyday they believed they were as good as their peers.
My point is if we had given carroll and townsend a chance in the first team, some of the others would have gained a boast from it and thought if they can do it so can i. This has been reported in so many different sports in so many different countries.
None of them will stay at spurs long, townsend will be sold to someone like WBA in a years time, Livermore will go to Norwich and carroll will end up at Bolton or derby or somewhere similar.
If we had of made more of an effort to bring them through and encouraged them im sure townsend and carroll would have been good enough for england, especailly considering their skill levels.
Im not having a go at you statto, i like you and i can not say that of many on here anymore, but i remember what my history teacher told me. We learn history to know about the future.
AVB and our club will not give the young lads a chance and especailly not the english ones, would love to be proved wrong but when players as skillful as townsend and carroll are not getting a proper chance the writing is on the wall.
Did you see when carroll came on last season against arsenal? he was the best player on the pitch and the only one actually passing it. Shame he aint foreign really.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
jgl:
Carroll turned 21 this summer. Iirc we signed Carrick when he was 23. I think you should give Carroll, and Spurs/AVB some time before you make your mind up on what's happening.
Not sure how many 20 year old central midfielders of any nationality establish themselves at top clubs in the PL these days. I can't think of many examples off the top of my head, I challenge you to come up with some examples of players with Carroll's physique that's established themselves at that age.
Townsend turned 22 this summer. Yes there are younger wingers that establish themselves, it's an easier position to break into for younger players for sure. But that's around the same age that Ashley Young was sold to Aston Villa. A bit premature to be demanding that he should be given regular playing time for Spurs in my eyes.
Carroll turned 21 this summer. Iirc we signed Carrick when he was 23. I think you should give Carroll, and Spurs/AVB some time before you make your mind up on what's happening.
Not sure how many 20 year old central midfielders of any nationality establish themselves at top clubs in the PL these days. I can't think of many examples off the top of my head, I challenge you to come up with some examples of players with Carroll's physique that's established themselves at that age.
Townsend turned 22 this summer. Yes there are younger wingers that establish themselves, it's an easier position to break into for younger players for sure. But that's around the same age that Ashley Young was sold to Aston Villa. A bit premature to be demanding that he should be given regular playing time for Spurs in my eyes.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
You see i kind of agree with what your saying, but also im right and your wrong, we will not sadly give them the chance. They are going the way of caulker, i like this thread the best on this website but im not sure if the is much point in it sometimes.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Do you have some reasoning behind saying that they won't be given the chance?
I for one am willing to give AVB at least a couple of seasons before I start judging his willingness to introduce young players into the team. Doing so more frequently becomes easier, and more sensible, for the manager after some time in charge imo.
If we're at "I'm right and you're wrong" we're pretty much at the "I'm rubber, you're glue" stage of the discussion.
If AVB prioritizes giving youth a chance over playing his strongest team, how long before he's out of a job?
For the first team and the head coach it's pretty simple: Win. If/when any of our youth players are good enough they'll get a chance, but we're not yet at that stage where we can carry inferior players in the team. Man Utd under Fergie have done it, but the other 9-10 players were usually pretty exceptional and anyone coming from the academy have to show the right attitude and work their asses off.
I think the club is doing pretty well in producing players that go on to have a career as professional footballers. To become a "Champions League quality" player you have to either be pretty special or cover your flaws through hard work.
For the first team and the head coach it's pretty simple: Win. If/when any of our youth players are good enough they'll get a chance, but we're not yet at that stage where we can carry inferior players in the team. Man Utd under Fergie have done it, but the other 9-10 players were usually pretty exceptional and anyone coming from the academy have to show the right attitude and work their asses off.
I think the club is doing pretty well in producing players that go on to have a career as professional footballers. To become a "Champions League quality" player you have to either be pretty special or cover your flaws through hard work.
I 99% agree with you but just to take Kane as an example: I thought he warranted a place on the bench last term on the strength of his successful Millwall loan. He did well against Monaco but probably won't play today and probably will be sent on loan again this season.
ITK says AVB turned down Shaw so would he have turned down Bale, too?
You have a tendency to either not read what I print or deliberately misunderstand it.
My first line is "It is NOT the end" but 23 is pushing it
I certainly do not write off players who are not world beaters in their early twenties. Ian Wright was playing on Blackheath in his twenties. The Morison Welsh international was a navvy in his twenties and there are other examples.
I have not given up on Obika, even.
But you can look at some players and tell whether they will ever be good enough. I have seen Falque a couple of times and he was OK. Just OK.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Yeah i got that you were not writing off carroll at 23, but he does not even seem to fit the style of midfielder that avb seems to like. My basis for my opinons on our youth players is that i think townsend and carroll are ready for the first team, they may have the odd quiet game, but they need a season of playing and no amount of loans is going to help with that.
They need a season of playing in our first team with other top players. I think it was juve in italy who used to have a self imposed rule where every season they had to bring a young player into the first team. I always thought that was a good way to run a club because over a 5 year period you brought through 5 youth players and at least a couple were good enough for the first team.
Im not saying bring them in if they are not good enough and clearly in the days of jonnie jackson and stephen clemence they were not. But i feel now from what i have seen with my own eyes some of them are. Kane on the other hand needs a spell with a sports mind coach to grow some confidence and another season in the championship.
Or with kane we could play in the europa league and league cups then loan him out at xmas, i do not want to see any of our good players in either of this competitions this year.
Hard to say. There are more to consider than just the ability/potential of the player. How much would he cost and how would that impact on other transfers.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Part of Ramsey's reaction after the Chelsea win:
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/u21s-chelsea-chris-ramsey-090813/
Anyone on here who follow the academy and reserve action more than I do that want to chime in with who they think are the better players of those ready to step up to u21 action this season?
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/u21s-chelsea-chris-ramsey-090813/
Anyone on here who follow the academy and reserve action more than I do that want to chime in with who they think are the better players of those ready to step up to u21 action this season?
