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Technology And Refereeing

Bedfordspurs said:
The average game has the ball in play 62 minutes IIRC out of the 90

The ref recover on average 5 minutes in added time so that’s 67 minutes

That leaves 23 minutes with the ball out of play

I personally had never seen penalties take so long to be taken as they were this weekend
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FWIW, the average was down to less than an hour last season...

34127266-1EA1-4897-B68B-8CE1CFB6E38B.jpeg

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...considering-60-minute-matches-more-game-time/

And about the same the season, according to the most recent figures I’ve seen...

54: West Ham and Everton
55: Watford, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Huddersfield, Stoke, Palace
56: Leicester, Southampton
57: West Brom, Bournemouth, Swansea, Brighton, Tottenham
58: ManU, Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project, ARSEnal
59: Chelsea

https://talksport.com/football/average-ball-play-time-each-premier-league-side-201718-season-171127263506
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
At the end of the day, with the speed at which the game moves these days, its not even reasonable to expect a ref to keep up with play, pick up all the details everywhere and make the right decisions at all times.

Put it this way, if there was no officiating in football, and we decided to introduce it now - what we have wouldnt even make the short list of solutions.
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And if we invented football today, we would have stopwatches. Hence, we would play 2x30 minutes with the clock being stopped when the ball is out of play. Eliminates the wasting of time at set pieces and throw ins.

As the VAR can of worms has been opened, it will be implemented whether we like it or not. But since we are at a trial stage, I think there should be a trial with challenges. One solution could be one challenge per half per team. If your challenge results in the original decision being overturned, you get another challenge. If not, you have no more challenges until half time (or the next game if it's in the second half). This should ensure that it is used only when the decision seems blatantly wrong.
 
The challenge has worked well in NFL and tennis. The danger is that it becomes a strategy. A manager throwing a red flag (as in the NFL) as the opposition broke would be distracting even if it wasn't acted on immediately. A challenge made when play is stopped (e.g. after a goal or at a corner) could be useful. A limited number of challenges could be one way of avoiding the number used at Anfield.

That said, the system they are trialling has merits (and current issues). In some ways I like the suggestion above that the referee should also be able onto ask without being prompted, but also feel it is best if the referee makes the call on the field first. On the other hand, if the referee and VAR official can develop a relationship with constant dialogue then it would help flow of play. We might need a new crop of referees for this more team oriented refereeing to work.

There are lots of good examples of technology being used in various other sports. Many are unsuitable for the more free-flowing football, but it should be possible to borrow the best ideas and create a bespoke solution for Mistexit.
 
I just dont see why managers should have the opportunity to effect refereeing with challenges.

With the system properly refined there should simply be no need. And as you say, we all know an option to challenge would be used tactically - and dont see why the opportunity for any gamesmanship should be offered.
 
jts1882 said:
The challenge has worked well in NFL and tennis. The danger is that it becomes a strategy. A manager throwing a red flag (as in the NFL) as the opposition broke would be distracting even if it wasn't acted on immediately. A challenge made when play is stopped (e.g. after a goal or at a corner) could be useful. A limited number of challenges could be one way of avoiding the number used at Anfield.

That said, the system they are trialling has merits (and current issues). In some ways I like the suggestion above that the referee should also be able onto ask without being prompted, but also feel it is best if the referee makes the call on the field first. On the other hand, if the referee and VAR official can develop a relationship with constant dialogue then it would help flow of play. We might need a new crop of referees for this more team oriented refereeing to work.

There are lots of good examples of technology being used in various other sports. Many are unsuitable for the more free-flowing football, but it should be possible to borrow the best ideas and create a bespoke solution for Mistexit.
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Why not mimic the NFL system but with subs instead of timeouts?

If you falsely raise a challenge you lose a sub. If you've used all your subs, tough brick.
 
jts1882 said:
The challenge has worked well in NFL and tennis. The danger is that it becomes a strategy. A manager throwing a red flag (as in the NFL) as the opposition broke would be distracting even if it wasn't acted on immediately. A challenge made when play is stopped (e.g. after a goal or at a corner) could be useful. A limited number of challenges could be one way of avoiding the number used at Anfield.

That said, the system they are trialling has merits (and current issues). In some ways I like the suggestion above that the referee should also be able onto ask without being prompted, but also feel it is best if the referee makes the call on the field first. On the other hand, if the referee and VAR official can develop a relationship with constant dialogue then it would help flow of play. We might need a new crop of referees for this more team oriented refereeing to work.

There are lots of good examples of technology being used in various other sports. Many are unsuitable for the more free-flowing football, but it should be possible to borrow the best ideas and create a bespoke solution for Mistexit.
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One problem with waiting for the ref to make a call is that play doesn't stop if the ref doesn't call an infringement and that non-call for instance was a penalty that should have been given.

Why would challenges becoming strategy necessarily be a problem? IMHO it would not be more of a problem than timewasting at set pieces and goal kicks as a strategy. The challenge could be signalled via some sort of button / arm piece / smartphone app, the flag thing can be kept within the NFL.
 
Challenges are pointless, and needless. Why complicate things? Why offer the chance for gamesmanship? Why, even, should there be a facility to second guess the ref during a game?

IMO there are most often natural breaks in the game surrounding these decisions, so instead of the ref taking a minute to work out what he saw, or deal with remonstrating players, he can be doing the VAR thing and just getting the right decision. If not, it comes up at the next natural break, usually dont have to wait long...
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
IMO there are most often natural breaks in the game surrounding these decisions, so instead of the ref taking a minute to work out what he saw, or deal with remonstrating players, he can be doing the VAR thing and just getting the right decision. If not, it comes up at the next natural break, usually dont have to wait long...
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In the extreme case though, where you have a decision not given at one end and the next stoppage is a goal at the other, if you reverse the first decision do you then cancel the goal and add on a load of time for the period of play that never was? It could get a bit messy. You do wonder why they don't already have answers for stuff like this too.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Challenges are pointless, and needless. Why complicate things? Why offer the chance for gamesmanship? Why, even, should there be a facility to second guess the ref during a game?

IMO there are most often natural breaks in the game surrounding these decisions, so instead of the ref taking a minute to work out what he saw, or deal with remonstrating players, he can be doing the VAR thing and just getting the right decision. If not, it comes up at the next natural break, usually dont have to wait long...
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People want to turn everything into a bloody xfactor" type shambles
 
Seedy Ron said:
In the extreme case though, where you have a decision not given at one end and the next stoppage is a goal at the other, if you reverse the first decision do you then cancel the goal and add on a load of time for the period of play that never was? It could get a bit messy. You do wonder why they don't already have answers for stuff like this too.
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I dont have an answer, only to say Id imagine the chances of something like that are remote.

Maybe the ref will need to formally stop things on occasion, restart with a drop ball?
 
I like football, it's the most popular game in the world and its popularity is growing all this without video refs, part of its appeal IMHO is its simplicity.

Accept ref will get things wrong rather than convoluted solutions which create just as many problems.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I like football, it's the most popular game in the world and its popularity is growing all this without video refs, part of its appeal IMHO is its simplicity.

Accept ref will get things wrong rather than convoluted solutions which create just as many problems.
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No I like VAR in principle, but it's going to take 3-4 season to sort it!
These early implementation periods were alway going to be problems it the nature of change!
 
StephenH said:
No I like VAR in principle, but it's going to take 3-4 season to sort it!
These early implementation periods were alway going to be problems it the nature of change!
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I hope it goes the way of golden goal, good idea in principle but ended up with unintended consequences.
 
galeforce said:
It’s like when the backpass rule was brought in, chaos to start with, lambasted by pundits, ultimately a complete success.
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Not the same at all ( imo) the back pass rule was brought in to stop time wasting, this new rule is adding more time to a game and just as much confusion.
 
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