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Technology And Refereeing
- Thread starter COYS
- Start date
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
So what was peoples view on V.A.R last night? Felt surreal at times but maybe because its new.
James Richardson said on his podcast there is a groundswell of support in Italy to remove VAR - as well as the increased stop /start and the inability to really celebrate a goal (as it needs to be checked) it has done little to remove the perceived injustices as the VAR decisions is benefiting the other / bigger team - he has said earlier in the year that the amount of fouls has been reduced, possibly as players adjust their behavior knowing it will be reviewed. I remain unconvinced.
I am still of the opinion that it takes away more than it adds, understand the other view point. As long as it does not go against me I love things like that Watford goal at the weekend as well, it was hilariously bad reefing, so did not see it as a reason for bringing in VAR.
I am still of the opinion that it takes away more than it adds, understand the other view point. As long as it does not go against me I love things like that Watford goal at the weekend as well, it was hilariously bad reefing, so did not see it as a reason for bringing in VAR.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Thats very interesting about Italy.
I am unconvinced on it, just seemed abit Hollywood for me and my fear is that, in a sport where the tractors at Man United are sponsored that the V.A.R breaks will be sponsored by Taco Bell or something like American Sports and its gonna descend into bricktus
I am unconvinced on it, just seemed abit Hollywood for me and my fear is that, in a sport where the tractors at Man United are sponsored that the V.A.R breaks will be sponsored by Taco Bell or something like American Sports and its gonna descend into bricktus
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
This is interesting on it:
All of which would have been fine, if the referee, Davide Massa, had waited for Alex Berenguer to stick the ball in the net before blowing his whistle. As it was, the match official stopped play a second too soon – meaning that the action could no longer be reviewed.
As Torino’s manager, Sinisa Mihajlovic, would lament afterwards: “It was a double mistake. The first was failing to spot that the pass to Belotti came from Destro – which we all saw on the pitch, together with the other 19,000 people watching except him. The second was the whistle because it has been said that [referees] should wait for the action to finish so that the VAR can intervene.”
Some degree of human error is inevitable. Overall, the VAR contributed to referees getting more decisions right on the opening weekend than they otherwise might. The lingering concern is whether the process remains too disruptive to the flow of the game. It took 97 seconds for Maresca to award Cagliari’s penalty against Juventus, during which both sets of players were left milling around, looking bemused.
All of which would have been fine, if the referee, Davide Massa, had waited for Alex Berenguer to stick the ball in the net before blowing his whistle. As it was, the match official stopped play a second too soon – meaning that the action could no longer be reviewed.
As Torino’s manager, Sinisa Mihajlovic, would lament afterwards: “It was a double mistake. The first was failing to spot that the pass to Belotti came from Destro – which we all saw on the pitch, together with the other 19,000 people watching except him. The second was the whistle because it has been said that [referees] should wait for the action to finish so that the VAR can intervene.”
Some degree of human error is inevitable. Overall, the VAR contributed to referees getting more decisions right on the opening weekend than they otherwise might. The lingering concern is whether the process remains too disruptive to the flow of the game. It took 97 seconds for Maresca to award Cagliari’s penalty against Juventus, during which both sets of players were left milling around, looking bemused.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think its being badly implemented, and I wonder how purposefully that is.
To my mind, in the first instance, VAR is there for anything the ref is unsure of. In most cases this will be an incident where the game has stopped anyway.
Was that goal offside? Was this foul a Yellow? Was that a penalty? In most instances there is a break in play anyway.
The 4th official is supposed to be a qualified ref. And the ref on the field is set up with a headset and mic. So the obvious thing is for them to communicate at this point.
Ref: Was he on or off?
4th official: On
Ref: blows whistle for goal.
The flow of the game is barely interrupted, the players have no means to complain (like with the goal decision system), and the correct decision is made which is most important.
The second way I can see it used, which Im a little less sure on, is unsolicited input from the 4th official.
The 4th official see's something the ref misses, and makes him aware. This could impact the flow of the game more, which is where Im unsure, but - again - if the right decisions are being made then I feel its worth looking into.
It all hinges on the 4th officials word being as good as the ref. Which it should be.
To my mind, in the first instance, VAR is there for anything the ref is unsure of. In most cases this will be an incident where the game has stopped anyway.
Was that goal offside? Was this foul a Yellow? Was that a penalty? In most instances there is a break in play anyway.
The 4th official is supposed to be a qualified ref. And the ref on the field is set up with a headset and mic. So the obvious thing is for them to communicate at this point.
Ref: Was he on or off?
4th official: On
Ref: blows whistle for goal.
The flow of the game is barely interrupted, the players have no means to complain (like with the goal decision system), and the correct decision is made which is most important.
The second way I can see it used, which Im a little less sure on, is unsolicited input from the 4th official.
The 4th official see's something the ref misses, and makes him aware. This could impact the flow of the game more, which is where Im unsure, but - again - if the right decisions are being made then I feel its worth looking into.
It all hinges on the 4th officials word being as good as the ref. Which it should be.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
The issue is human error will still rule the day on it both on and off the pitch.
What seems to have happened in Italy after some digging is its frequency of us is depending on the ref of the game, very much in the same way some refs blow up for loads and some don't. So should the tail wag the dog or should the dog wag the tail? Buffon saying against his own team here sums it up..........
"You told us that VAR would be used in clear-cut incidents where there were mistakes, but now you are even checking the replays for a trodden toe or a finger in an ear. It’s no longer football that way, it’s turning into water polo,” Buffon said.
“It takes too long, as I didn’t even celebrate when we were awarded a penalty, because six minutes had passed. Last season we had three penalties in our favour, but if it carries on like this, we’ll have 50. I’m happy with that as a Juventino, but it ruins the entertainment factor.”
What seems to have happened in Italy after some digging is its frequency of us is depending on the ref of the game, very much in the same way some refs blow up for loads and some don't. So should the tail wag the dog or should the dog wag the tail? Buffon saying against his own team here sums it up..........
"You told us that VAR would be used in clear-cut incidents where there were mistakes, but now you are even checking the replays for a trodden toe or a finger in an ear. It’s no longer football that way, it’s turning into water polo,” Buffon said.
“It takes too long, as I didn’t even celebrate when we were awarded a penalty, because six minutes had passed. Last season we had three penalties in our favour, but if it carries on like this, we’ll have 50. I’m happy with that as a Juventino, but it ruins the entertainment factor.”
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Of course theres a case for balance.
Human error should still be a part of the game, but at the same time being able to get the majority of decisions right is a valid goal to have.
Especially when the ability is there to do so.
Like I said, in the first place just have the decision when the ref wants it. He doesnt need to make the decision, just get the answer he asks for.
"Was that a penalty?" - "Yes" - Whistle blows.
Its still possible that decision is incorrect, but the chances are much higher it will be the right one with the benefit of a few replays. All while the game has stopped anyway.
How often, just this season, have we had the "You've seen those given" comments, both for and against us, and no penalty because the ref was no where near, or was unsighted, or just didnt see well enough in real time to make a firm decision?
All of those could be covered.
Human error should still be a part of the game, but at the same time being able to get the majority of decisions right is a valid goal to have.
Especially when the ability is there to do so.
Like I said, in the first place just have the decision when the ref wants it. He doesnt need to make the decision, just get the answer he asks for.
"Was that a penalty?" - "Yes" - Whistle blows.
Its still possible that decision is incorrect, but the chances are much higher it will be the right one with the benefit of a few replays. All while the game has stopped anyway.
How often, just this season, have we had the "You've seen those given" comments, both for and against us, and no penalty because the ref was no where near, or was unsighted, or just didnt see well enough in real time to make a firm decision?
All of those could be covered.
Its a goal we have achieved then - vast majority of decisions are right.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
They want what was it? 3% more success, seems a low figure to disrupt the game for.
In this day and age there must be statistical data available on mistakes versus overall effect of the game as a sport.
It will be game changing decisions in many cases. Well worth it.
Cut out the part where the ref reviews the footage that has already been watched by another ref and you'll save valuable seconds.
Let everyone know what is happening. This can include all decisions the ref make really.
Maybe give both managers a chance to demand a review if they think the ref has got something wrong.
Regardless of any implementation of video they should also look into the fact that the game is too fast for one man to keep track of everything.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I think it does need a limit though, am very much with Buffon on that.
StephenH
David Ginola
I think there are already limits set?
The Italians have made a mess of thier trials/implementation so far imho
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Ahhh ok.
One other area I am unsure on is if there is an all non league tie or say league 1 versus league 2 in the FA Cup are they gonna have VAR I would assume not where as the All Prem ties will, so on the basis of that Competition its not an even playing field. I get it being in Prem only but in a cup comp the playing field should be even.
Who is controlling the cameras editing? Is it sky or bt, that would concern me. The Aussies have fudged on VAR as well apparently.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
Hasn’t cleared up any controversy tonight has it? Too many situations are 50/50 or debatable even after video evidence.