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Tanguy Ndombele

mudshark said:
I think the opposite -- giftedness is the easy bit, by definition. Making the most of it requires dedication and sustained effort, which is the hard part for a lot of people.
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From a statistical perspective, a teeny tiny percentage have that mix of skill and physical attributes to be able to play football in this way. Is that fair to say? Far more people are able to develop a level of dedication and sustained effort, as you put it. That is certainly less rare?
 
I don't think any of those signings where a reach though..N'dombele was a coup at the time and people were jealous we got him.. He seemed to get his pay day and then all his motivation was gone.

Clarke was a bit of a punt.. But he is coming good now. Just not for us.

Lo Celso..I don't get that one at all. He had it in his locker. But injuries, managers etc..

On paper it was a good summer at the time..
 
FatBloke said:
So talented that he managed to make it to the top echelons of football without really having anything like the killer mentality.

The summer of 2019 was a truly disastrous window for us. Ndombele (£54m), Lo Celso (over £40m eventually), Sessegnon (£25m) and Clarke (£10m) adds up to almost £130m pretty much wasted. Okay, so Lo Celso looks like coming good now, but we needed him four years ago!

There are so many "maybes" when I think about what if that £130m had included one, even two properly successful transfers. Maybe Poch would have been able to rebuild. Maybe Mourinho would have a stronger midfield to build his team around. Or maybe Nuno would have had the players to keep his job and we'd still be bobbing along finishing 4th to 6th under him.

But anyway, glad he'll be nowhere near the rest of our squad for a while longer. I really hope he does enough to get a transfer in the summer.
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Lo Celco has been vital to us these last few games, but I think he's only really good for a 10 game stretch. Ideal squad player maybe or frequently rotated in and out the side. Anyway great to have him around atm - he has drive that we've been missing with so many out. But if we could get our money back, I am sure we would take the trade and reinvest the cash.

I agree Poch lost his job based on that transfer window. And I think he earnt more and more control of transfers - culminating in that seismic waste.

Would we have Postecoglou now however if it wasn't for that chain of events? Highly unlikely. And he is the most interesting, possibly best manager of that list. He is for me anyway.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Lo Celco has been vital to us these last few games, but I think he's only really good for a 10 game stretch. Ideal squad player maybe or frequently rotated in and out the side. Anyway great to have him around atm - he has drive that we've been missing with so many out. But if we could get our money back, I am sure we would take the trade and reinvest the cash.

I agree Poch lost his job based on that transfer window. And I think he earnt more and more control of transfers - culminating in that seismic waste.

Would we have Postecoglou now however if it wasn't for that chain of events? Highly unlikely. And he is the most interesting, possibly best manager of that list. He is for me anyway.
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Lo celso is injured again.
 
SpurMeUp said:
From a statistical perspective, a teeny tiny percentage have that mix of skill and physical attributes to be able to play football in this way. Is that fair to say? Far more people are able to develop a level of dedication and sustained effort, as you put it. That is certainly less rare?
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Well, I'd agree most people can probably appreciate the idea of self-improvement and working towards a goal, but it's all relative. I'm not sure the majority would be prepared to make the sacrifices elite athletes have to. I get what you're trying to say, though.
 
mudshark said:
Well, I'd agree most people can probably appreciate the idea of self-improvement and working towards a goal, but it's all relative. I'm not sure the majority would be prepared to make the sacrifices elite athletes have to. I get what you're trying to say, though.
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It is an interesting one. If you are determined enough, could you make it to that 0.0001%? In all careers. Maybe. There is a lot to be said for dedication, determination + time. But in sport, genetics and things we don't control do play a part. Yet, if you have a football stuck to your foot 5-10 hours a day, every day. from 7 years old, and you focus, develop, analyse, hone etc it doesn't matter if you're a beast physically, or more slight like Modric. So yes, ultimately dedication, mentality and history is a greater signifier of success than 'natural talent'.

As someone noted being gifted can make things too easy. You coast. When the biggest variable to success is having complete focus and determination.
 
Sandman said:
For me Sess has the attributes that Ange can use. He is fit now. This run to the eve of the season will seal his Spurs fate.. The fact Ange brought him in says to me he wants to see what he can do with him.
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I'm really interested to see what he can do with Sess. I really thought Sess would be the next Bale...so far underwhelming is an understatement for his Spurs career but I think if anyone can get him going, it's Ange.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is an interesting one. If you are determined enough, could you make it to that 0.0001%? In all careers. Maybe. There is a lot to be said for dedication, determination + time. But in sport, genetics and things we don't control do play a part. Yet, if you have a football stuck to your foot 5-10 hours a day, every day. from 7 years old, and you focus, develop, analyse, hone etc it doesn't matter if you're a beast physically, or more slight like Modric. So yes, ultimately dedication, mentality and history is a greater signifier of success than 'natural talent'.

As someone noted being gifted can make things too easy. You coast. When the biggest variable to success is having complete focus and determination.
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It's both. You have to have natural talent and you have to work your gonads off.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is an interesting one. If you are determined enough, could you make it to that 0.0001%? In all careers. Maybe. There is a lot to be said for dedication, determination + time. But in sport, genetics and things we don't control do play a part. Yet, if you have a football stuck to your foot 5-10 hours a day, every day. from 7 years old, and you focus, develop, analyse, hone etc it doesn't matter if you're a beast physically, or more slight like Modric. So yes, ultimately dedication, mentality and history is a greater signifier of success than 'natural talent'.

As someone noted being gifted can make things too easy. You coast. When the biggest variable to success is having complete focus and determination.
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It's true, you get used to the idea early on that effort isn't necessary. In sport, there's also the added risk that, in spite of how much you invest, you get a serious injury or something, and then what ...?
 
Sandman said:
I don't think any of those signings where a reach though..N'dombele was a coup at the time and people were jealous we got him.. He seemed to get his pay day and then all his motivation was gone.

Clarke was a bit of a punt.. But he is coming good now. Just not for us.

Lo Celso..I don't get that one at all. He had it in his locker. But injuries, managers etc..

On paper it was a good summer at the time..
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I absolutely agree with all that. I was delighted with all four transfers at the time. I'm very much speaking with the benefit of hindsight.
 
Intriguing stories about his being recalled in the media. My head says its lazy journalism but my heart wants Tanguy to come back, get fit and smash it. I wished for and got a Lo Celso revival, I can't help think Tanguy has so much more work to do.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is an interesting one. If you are determined enough, could you make it to that 0.0001%? In all careers. Maybe. There is a lot to be said for dedication, determination + time. But in sport, genetics and things we don't control do play a part. Yet, if you have a football stuck to your foot 5-10 hours a day, every day. from 7 years old, and you focus, develop, analyse, hone etc it doesn't matter if you're a beast physically, or more slight like Modric. So yes, ultimately dedication, mentality and history is a greater signifier of success than 'natural talent'.

As someone noted being gifted can make things too easy. You coast. When the biggest variable to success is having complete focus and determination.
Click to expand...
30-40 years ago talent alone could be enough to make it at the highest level. N'dombele would be a beast in the 1990s.

Today I think determination and dedication is more important. Players are athletes now, much more so than earlier. The pace of the game is quicker. The level is higher and the margins are smaller.

Basically the overall demands on players are higher, and so are the sacrifices to make it to the top. The bigger the sacrifice, the bigger the determination needed to make the sacrifice.
 
Robbo said:
30-40 years ago talent alone could be enough to make it at the highest level. N'dombele would be a beast in the 1990s.

Today I think determination and dedication is more important. Players are athletes now, much more so than earlier. The pace of the game is quicker. The level is higher and the margins are smaller.

Basically the overall demands on players are higher, and so are the sacrifices to make it to the top. The bigger the sacrifice, the bigger the determination needed to make the sacrifice.
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A player like Bentancur is so much more effective isn't he. Mix of ability and dedication trumps a 1 in 10 game camero. You know Bentancur will be working hard all game. The modern game probably does limit these kinds of the players to some degree. The likes of Adama Traore, Bentancur...their raw abilility is exceptional, but in the context of a season of games, spark and flare are quite low donwn the list after hard work, tracking, dilligence, running etc. Be brilliant, but be hard working too. It is a bare minimum now.
 
SpurMeUp said:
A player like Bentancur is so much more effective isn't he. Mix of ability and dedication trumps a 1 in 10 game camero. You know Bentancur will be working hard all game. The modern game probably does limit these kinds of the players to some degree. The likes of Adama Traore, Bentancur...their raw abilility is exceptional, but in the context of a season of games, spark and flare are quite low donwn the list after hard work, tracking, dilligence, running etc. Be brilliant, but be hard working too. It is a bare minimum now.
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Traore.. ability…. Really!!!
Not footballing ability surely?
 
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