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Steven Bergwijn

glasgowspur said:
There's a lot of sense in what you say, but just a small point, "the much maligned moura", yes much maligned by fans, i'm hoping no spurs manager is picking his team based on what the fans think.
Have any of the four managers we have had tried to move him on, not played him, or had a bad word for him?
His game has weaknesses for sure, but for me his positives far out weigh his negatives.
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Yeah, maligned by large portions of the fanbase. I love the bloke, and appreciate he isn't the perfect player but a good one to have around despite the fact that he's top on people's to sell list, alongside other silly suggestions like Hojberg. Don't think anyone is worried that Conte would be making choices based on popularity with the fans.

To add to my previous points in case I was a bit overly absolute, sure it'd be nice to see Stevie B stick around and became a major asset to the team, however it just doesn't seem likely.
 
spurspinter1 said:
On the first point - Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool and Chelsea are teams that have excellent strength in depth and unsurprisingly are the teams that finished above us and are the level that we need to surpass.

I (and more importantly Fabio and Antonio) know that we can't rely on Kane / Son to be fit for an entire season, that's why for a start they went out and got Kulu in January who waltzed in to the first team ahead of Stevie.

Now I'm ever hopeful that we'll push on to the next level and get actual cover for Kane, a world class deep lying centre forward rather than pretending a moderately talented winger with no playmaking skills and erratic finishing is fit for the job.

It's only rumours until there's a quote but reportedly ( and understandably from his perspective) Stevie's head dropped somewhat in training as it's clear where he is in the pecking order. More talented players than Bergwijn have fallen foul of Conte's standards and needs mentality wise - Every poster desperate for Stevie to waste another season of his career here doesn't want to acknowledge the much maligned Moura got starts ahead of him even in the late stages of the season, this isn't an oversight on our management team.

It's only my opinion but for his sake he needs to move on, you're right he'll definitely grab a couple against us if we meet again but it's the price to pay for him getting his career back on track and for us to improve our squad in line with Conte's vision.
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100%
And rodon too
They need games and I’m sure there will be I told you so moments but that’s football
 
glasgowspur said:
There's a lot of sense in what you say, but just a small point, "the much maligned moura", yes much maligned by fans, i'm hoping no spurs manager is picking his team based on what the fans think.
Have any of the four managers we have had tried to move him on, not played him, or had a bad word for him?
His game has weaknesses for sure, but for me his positives far out weigh his negatives.
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What are his positives?
Consider this is a conte team that works on systems, set plays and keeping the ball, none of which are things that Moura does well.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
What are his positives?
Consider this is a conte team that works on systems, set plays and keeping the ball, none of which are things that Moura does well.
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Well he must have some, no way he would get game time under conte if he didn't.
He's not a good fit for the way conte plays, and if we got a decent offer I'd be more than happy to see him go, but that doesn't make him a bad player.
 
glasgowspur said:
Well he must have some, no way he would get game time under conte if he didn't.
He's not a good fit for the way conte plays, and if we got a decent offer I'd be more than happy to see him go, but that doesn't make him a bad player.
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Doesn’t make him a good one
We literally had no one else as he sees Bergwein as a CF
So we had the option of playing youth players
 
glasgowspur said:
Well he must have some, no way he would get game time under conte if he didn't.
He's not a good fit for the way conte plays, and if we got a decent offer I'd be more than happy to see him go, but that doesn't make him a bad player.
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Think moura might not want to leave. Think he wants to see out his contract and go back to play in brazil. Unless there is a good player at sao paolo we could swap with or we send him on loan.
 
harr1984 said:
Other than Emirates Marketing Project just about every bench has ‘lesser options’. But the fact is you can’t rely on Son and Kane to be fit to play all games in a season which means you need to give appropriate minutes to the understudy to a) keep them happy and interested enough to actually perform when required b) Have enough minutes in them to actually develop a bit of ‘form’. Bergwijn is technically a very good player, his goal yesterday wasn’t a one off and should have been given more game time against lower level PL teams rather than just the last five minutes of games when they were already won and the team barely interested in even attacking.

I wouldn’t mind if Bergwijn didn’t have the talent, but I’d say he is a similar level to what Son was when he first arrived. It’s just sad he wants to leave and will watch him develop into a really good player somewhere else - probably Ajax and he will score a hat trick against us next season:D….
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Have to disagree there. Son was already quite prolific when he was at Hamburg and Leverkusen, he scored 10 league goals multiple times. I don’t think Bergwijn has done that more than once in his career. Son played in a harder league than Bergwijn did too. I like Bergwijn but he’s getting somewhat overrated on this forum probably because he doesn’t play much (absence makes the heart grow fonder). And people are still underrating Son l. And it’s quite obvious Conte has Moura ahead of Bergwijn in the pecking order, even if annoys Yiddo. I’d be happy to keep Bergwijn but if he wants to leave and get more game time then we shouldn’t stand in his way. He’s a good player, but it’s not like he’s not upgradable.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Have to disagree there. Son was already quite prolific when he was at Hamburg and Leverkusen, he scored 10 league goals multiple times. I don’t think Bergwijn has done that more than once in his career. Son played in a harder league than Bergwijn did too. I like Bergwijn but he’s getting somewhat overrated on this forum probably because he doesn’t play much (absence makes the heart grow fonder). And people are still underrating Son l. And it’s quite obvious Conte has Moura ahead of Bergwijn in the pecking order, even if annoys Yiddo. I’d be happy to keep Bergwijn but if he wants to leave and get more game time then we shouldn’t stand in his way. He’s a good player, but it’s not like he’s not upgradable.
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Take out the players we have brought in in the last year then other than kane, son and hugo they are all upgradable.
 
Lilbaz said:
Think moura might not want to leave. Think he wants to see out his contract and go back to play in brazil. Unless there is a good player at sao paolo we could swap with or we send him on loan.
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There was talk of them making a bid to get it done now. I imagine we would take it.
 
“I wasn't allowed to leave Spurs in the winter and then I didn't have any problems. The last few months I was hardly looked after there. Now I want to play somewhere weekly.

"That could be [an option], yes, [a return to the Eredivisie]. It's about my situation now, that has to be different."

The looked after part interests me, if he means what it comes over as it is the complete opposite of what Rodon said about Conte making sure everyone was at a high fitness level.

It may suggests one of the reasons Conte wasn’t a fan, just get on with it.
 
Legohamster said:
“I wasn't allowed to leave Spurs in the winter and then I didn't have any problems. The last few months I was hardly looked after there. Now I want to play somewhere weekly.

"That could be [an option], yes, [a return to the Eredivisie]. It's about my situation now, that has to be different."

The looked after part interests me, if he means what it comes over as it is the complete opposite of what Rodon said about Conte making sure everyone was at a high fitness level.

It may suggests one of the reasons Conte wasn’t a fan, just get on with it.
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I'm guessing this is a translation of something he's said, so could be he meant something else. Like being overlooked for selection.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Nothing new
We need Ajax to pay the right fee and he is there’s
I’d be tempted to take the lower fee but a big sell on element
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Good idea. He’s too good for the Dutch league really. He would rip it up there and be sold to one of the big European leagues again within a couple of years….
 
I think this will be one that comes and bites us in the arse in the future. I reckon he goes back abroad for 2 seasons rips it up then comes back to the prem and becomes an £100m player.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Loan to a premier league club who will give him regular playing time, just to make sure we're not making a mistake?
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I think we are making a mistake. I’ve seen enough of him at international level to know he’s got fantastic technique and finishing ability. But for whatever reason Conte doesn’t want to give him adequate minutes so might aswell sell and get someone he wants. But in a couple of years time when Conte is no longer here and Bergwijn is doing the business elsewhere it will be annoying, but c’est la vie….
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Loan to a premier league club who will give him regular playing time, just to make sure we're not making a mistake?
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That's a good shout. Saudi Sportswashing Machine or someone like that where he'll be a regular would make sense. Would want a team where he'll start every week such that he had a chance to get say 15 goals. If that happens he'd be worth considerably more than the £20m rumoured fee from Ajax
 
We can’t win with Bergwein because he has the talent to play regularly and get better
But he isn’t as good as son, Kane or Kulu right now
I think same with a % on top of a future sale is the way to go
And something like if he is sold back to the prem we get 40% anywhere else 20%
 
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