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Son Heung-Min

tommysvr said:
I don't understand this at all. He does a great thing in coming out to get the ball, showing that he wants it, creates some space and you're thinking "this is Son's area." Then he lays it off for a CM to shoot instead?? If it's a system thing, why is Bentancur shooting there? If it's not...what has happened to the Sonny we know? I get that it's a long way out, but it's definitely not outside his range.

https://imgur.com/a/bA9T3NX
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You do accept that the shot which is 'on' for him is worldie territory?
 
One thing to note...time and time again he takes off quickly the moment we get the ball, and our pensive midfielders are too afraid to make a mistake and settle for a 'square safety' pass. Bissouma was a coward in that first-half on the ball (he has the ability to carry, break lines and move play), Maddison ponderous and poor in the second, PEH ponderous and poor too. Deki in the 10 is useless unless we move the ball with more courage coming forwards. Between that, and him off the left, it is killing anything he might be able to bring. He is also knackered (thanks Klinsmann). Poor performances, yes, most certainly not good enough from a player with his abilities and our skipper, absolutely, but I think he has reasons...
 
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thfcsteff said:
You do accept that the shot which is 'on' for him is worldie territory?
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Yes…I even said something to that affect in my last sentence. But it’s only marginally closer to the goal for Bentancur, who has literally no record of goals from that area for Spurs.
 
thfcsteff said:
One thing to note...time and time again he takes off quickly the moment we get the ball, and our pensive midfielders are too afraid to make a mistake and settle for a 'square safety' pass. Bissouma was a coward in that first-half on the ball (he has the ability to carry, break lines and move play), Maddison ponderous and poor in the second, PEH ponderous and poor too. Deki in the 10 is useless unless we move the ball with more courage coming forwards. Between that, and him off the left, it is killing anything he might be able to bring. He is also knackered (thanks Klinsmann). Poor performances, yes, most certainly not good enough from a player with his abilities and our skipper, absolutely, but I think he has reasons...
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This.
Early season we were passing without a thought, the amount of runs we were making was dizzying, there was an understanding of the system and each players role in it.
Bissouma, Udogie, Sarr and Maddison were able break lines and ghost past the opposition because the speed and movement was incredible.
We didn't care if we lost the ball, we believed we'd soon get it back. We were brave.
I don't know where that has gone.
 
thfcsteff said:
One thing to note...time and time again he takes off quickly the moment we get the ball, and our pensive midfielders are too afraid to make a mistake and settle for a 'square safety' pass. Bissouma was a coward in that first-half on the ball (he has the ability to carry, break lines and move play), Maddison ponderous and poor in the second, PEH ponderous and poor too. Deki in the 10 is useless unless we move the ball with more courage coming forwards. Between that, and him off the left, it is killing anything he might be able to bring. He is also knackered (thanks Klinsmann). Poor performances, yes, most certainly not good enough from a player with his abilities and our skipper, absolutely, but I think he has reasons...
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No player for any side has come back from a mid season tournament and played well
 
glasgowspur said:
This.
Early season we were passing without a thought, the amount of runs we were making was dizzying, there was an understanding of the system and each players role in it.
Bissouma, Udogie, Sarr and Maddison were able break lines and ghost past the opposition because the speed and movement was incredible.
We didn't care if we lost the ball, we believed we'd soon get it back. We were brave.
I don't know where that has gone.
Click to expand...
Teams didn’t sit back then
They do now
 
thfcsteff said:
One thing to note...time and time again he takes off quickly the moment we get the ball, and our pensive midfielders are too afraid to make a mistake and settle for a 'square safety' pass. Bissouma was a coward in that first-half on the ball (he has the ability to carry, break lines and move play), Maddison ponderous and poor in the second, PEH ponderous and poor too. Deki in the 10 is useless unless we move the ball with more courage coming forwards. Between that, and him off the left, it is killing anything he might be able to bring. He is also knackered (thanks Klinsmann). Poor performances, yes, most certainly not good enough from a player with his abilities and our skipper, absolutely, but I think he has reasons...
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Seems like there's always reasons, last year it was Contes system. Time to face that he's not the player he once was.
 
It's very hard to see how we play to his strengths or even a role in the team that suits him (and his skillet).

You can't sacrifice the CF role by playing him there.(In this system)
And out wide, Ange wants a typical winger type. So has to be able to take on his man via tricks or outpacing him. Son is capable of that but not against every opponent. He's not capable of physically dominating an opponent.

Plus, that winger role negates his best attribute. Finishing. Ange doesn't want his wide man cutting in and I've not seen Son show any expertise at arriving at the back post when we are attacking on the opposite side.

So I'm not sure where that leaves us.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's very hard to see how we play to his strengths or even a role in the team that suits him (and his skillet).

You can't sacrifice the CF role by playing him there.(In this system)
And out wide, Ange wants a typical winger type. So has to be able to take on his man via tricks or outpacing him. Son is capable of that but not against every opponent. He's not capable of physically dominating an opponent.

Plus, that winger role negates his best attribute. Finishing. Ange doesn't want his wide man cutting in and I've not seen Son show any expertise at arriving at the back post when we are attacking on the opposite side.

So I'm not sure where that leaves us.
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With son sold
But we may have left it too late
This is nothing to do with sons ability but everything to do with how we play and he can’t
Issue is our fans do cling on to players and the club do too
We’re so bad at selling it hurts us because we’re nearly always in limbo

I’ll be gutted when it happens but we need to move on. He would leave as a legend
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's very hard to see how we play to his strengths or even a role in the team that suits him (and his skillet).

You can't sacrifice the CF role by playing him there.(In this system)
And out wide, Ange wants a typical winger type. So has to be able to take on his man via tricks or outpacing him. Son is capable of that but not against every opponent. He's not capable of physically dominating an opponent.

Plus, that winger role negates his best attribute. Finishing. Ange doesn't want his wide man cutting in and I've not seen Son show any expertise at arriving at the back post when we are attacking on the opposite side.

So I'm not sure where that leaves us.
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For the first 3 league games of this season, he started left and contributed nothing. For the next 7 league games, he started up top and scored 8 and assisted 1. Then came Chelsea, and the season unravelled. He has proved he can prosper in this system, and it isn't on the left. I would like to hope it is more down to stage 2 of @fernadez 's post below, like a lot of other players.
fernadez said:
There was an article about implenting tactics I read somewhere, apparently it's basically split into three stages

1. Players have the general idea and play with no restraints
2. They actually understand the tactics but this causes them to overthink everything and regress
3. The tactics become ingrained and automated and no thinking is required, resulting in the shakles again coming off

Stage 2 we have been at with Jose, Conte and now Ange. Arteta, Klopp and Pep all went through it.

Only question is whether the manager gets to see it through to the other side, and if so are the squad good enough to implement it in a winning way.
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And @SteveAWOL 's post:
SteveAWOL said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1785974790370849154
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Its his worse season for us for sure, I never understood the reasoning behind making him capt [ for me it has to be leader and despite how good a player he has been i do not see him as a leader]. There is no doubt that he has been a great player for us but he has played a lot of football over the years and he will be 32 soon.
 
parklane1 said:
Its his worse season for us for sure, I never understood the reasoning behind making him capt [ for me it has to be leader and despite how good a player he has been i do not see him as a leader]. There is no doubt that he has been a great player for us but he has played a lot of football over the years and he will be 32 soon.
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Thought he was worse last year personally. I think, as captain, he's great when everything is going well. Earlier in the season, you could see how he was really all for the team by rushing off the bench to celebrate the others' goals and he's such a likeable fella that he's a great face for the club when things are going great.

However, when you're in the brick, I don't think he's the man to really lead you out of it. And that's when you need your captain most of all.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's very hard to see how we play to his strengths or even a role in the team that suits him (and his skillet).

You can't sacrifice the CF role by playing him there.(In this system)
And out wide, Ange wants a typical winger type. So has to be able to take on his man via tricks or outpacing him. Son is capable of that but not against every opponent. He's not capable of physically dominating an opponent.

Plus, that winger role negates his best attribute. Finishing. Ange doesn't want his wide man cutting in and I've not seen Son show any expertise at arriving at the back post when we are attacking on the opposite side.

So I'm not sure where that leaves us.
Click to expand...
I agree it's a bit of a conundrum. And along with his age why I think we should at least be open to the idea of selling him in the summer if a big offer comes in. Not actively looking to sell him, but if someone wants to put a proper offer on the table... At some point his pace will start diminishing too.

That being said, I think he can work in this system. As a striker with better wide players and on the left if how he and Udogie combine is tweaked. Will probably still be a bit of a compromise, but he's a good enough player that it could still be really good.

The balance and quality of the front three needs to be sorted out over the summer somehow. I think there are a lot of potential solutions for that, but all include some players in and some out.
 
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