So, your final thoughts 2011-2012 season?

[The Moonlit Knight]

so what is your conclusion then???

why did we manage 53 points from 25 games, and then 16 points from the final 13 games??? what was the change from the title challenging form for two thirds of the campaign to the final third collapse???? thats just the way football is???

I think there were three massive factors

1) Lennon injury was the biggest reason, and I do blame Redknapp AND Levy equally for not having a suitable back up.

2) Ade's form went to brick. First 10 or so games with us he was immense, leading the line. Then he went through about half a season where he couldn't trap a bag of cement and missed a stream of sitters......

3) Partly, actually mainly, due to point two the ball broke a lot more up top and came back at us quicker. Because of that our defence was a bit more exposed to opposition attacks and was found wanting way too often.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

im sure there are enough excuses there to cover the collapse and give the players and management get out of jail cards

Long time posters on here will know I have pretty much ALWAYS preached patience. I admit I was wobbling with the 2pts from 8 games with Ramos (and also our form after the League Cup final), but even then I didn't want him gone. I thought the Hoddle & Jol sackings were an utter disgrace. At least give a manager half the season before starting to consider firing them.

 

[indianspur]

Long time posters on here will know I have pretty much ALWAYS preached patience. I admit I was wobbling with the 2pts from 8 games with Ramos (and also our form after the League Cup final), but even then I didn't want him gone. I thought the Hoddle & Jol sackings were an utter disgrace. At least give a manager half the season before starting to consider firing them.

i see where you come from now....jeez, Redknapp must be a GHod to you and has a job for life

 

[Roy1983]

If we'd have given Ramos half a season we'd have gone down. I had my ST through the Hoddle years and believe me it was the worst football I've seen us play. Both sackings were fully justified.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

so what is your conclusion then???

why did we manage 53 points from 25 games, and then 16 points from the final 13 games??? what was the change from the title challenging form for two thirds of the campaign to the final third collapse???? thats just the way football is???

I think I've already given my view on this. We ran into our toughest period of the season fixture wise and this was combined with the lost of a key player and the lost of form of a key striker (and/or he is just a flat track bully). It is pointless taking great chunks out of the season like that. That period you're calling 'title form' included the 1-5 defeat at home to Emirates Marketing Project and the 0-3 at Man Utd! Yeah, that really showed 'em!

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

If we'd have given Ramos half a season we'd have gone down. I had my ST through the Hoddle years and believe me it was the worst football I've seen us play. Both sackings were fully justified.

For six months during the 2001/02 season, it was the best football we'd played since the early 80's. Probably better actually and the best I've ever seen us play. It's just a shame that internal politics ruined any chance of a fairytale ending.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

i see where you come from now....jeez, Redknapp must be a GHod to you and has a job for life

I just believe in giving people time to turn it around ESPECIALLY if they've proved for a period of time that they can deliver. Ferguson is living proof of that in my opinion, as was the success Burkinshaw had with us.....eventually.

 

[indianspur]

I think I've already given my view on this. We ran into our toughest period of the season fixture wise and this was combined with the lost of a key player and the lost of form of a key striker (and/or he is just a flat track bully). It is pointless taking great chunks out of the season like that. That period you're calling 'title form' included the 1-5 defeat at home to Emirates Marketing Project and the 0-3 at Man Utd! Yeah, that really showed 'em!

but after 25 games we had 53 points, that is more than just a decent run of games, that is two thirds of a season when we would have played all the the teams at least once and another 6 twice

yes, that period includes the games against the Manchester clubs, games against Arse, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, still we coped, still we gathered enough points to be comfortably 3rd

we'll just have to agree to disagree

 

[Mumorn]

The blip was always coming. In fact many Arsenal fans I know knew it was coming, I doubt they knew there team was going to capitilize like they did but I bet the majority of fans knew Spurs were going to have a blip, it's a matter of when.

 

[elltrev]

Since it has been - repeatedly - mentioned, that an assessment on Spurs shouldn't be until the end of the season, i.e. until 38 games have been played, I'll oblige. Over the full season. Fair enough.

Between August 2011 and Mid-February 2012

Spurs played 25 league games and got 53 points. Thats an average of 2.12 points per game.

We were cruising, and SAF said we were playing the best football. We were, and looked like beating anyone. Challenging for the title was mentioned by 'the pundits' and a top 3 finish was expected by the same, let alone fans. Qualification for the CL was my pre-season expectation, with the squad we have. After the shocking form of Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, I and many fans expected that end result moreso. At least.

Then......

Between 26th February 2012 and 21st April 2012

Spurs played 9 league games and got 6 points. Thats an average of 0.67 points per game.

The collapse. Appalling. Disastrous. Way clear of Arsenal. Clear daylight. Utter capitulation and nose-dive (for the second season running). Remarkable coincidence is that the England manager job becomes available, at precisely the start of that period, and our manager is a virtual cert for the job, not least due to help from his media mates. In fact Capello has the common decency to resign on the same day that Redknapp is 'cleared' from court, for tax evasion, too. Nice timing for the FA, that! Numerous press utterings by our manager over the next few weeks near sever Redknapp's ties with Spurs. Extraordinary dis-loyalty. Time for a change? But no.


Between Late April and End of Season May 2012

Spurs played 4 league games and got 10 points. Thats an average of 2.50 points per game.

A late rally of sorts, remarkably timed following Redknapp not getting the England job, and an enforced stay at Spurs. Three wins and a draw. Sounds good, except that four wins were needed (as said Redknapp himself) to secure 3rd. Which by then was looking a neccessity to secure CL. Spurs draw at an appaling Aston Villa, who shortly after sack their manager after one year, for poor performance. A win against Fulham in the last game allows a thankful Arsenal to finish in 3rd, as they too win. Turning a 10 point gap (with them behind Spurs), to being 1 point ahead. Spurs now have to rely on arch-enemy Chelsea to lose in the CL Final, to allow Spurs to get CL football next season.

Conclusion

This isn't a report, but more of a horror story! We should have WALKED 3rd place this season, with the Goons, Chelsea and Liverpool being in such a state. To blow up, again, for the second season running, points the finger at the management.

If we replace the 0.67 points per game collapse period (9 games) of February to April as per above, and use the average points per game of the earlier season (2.12 points per game) instead, we find that Spurs would have finished solidly in 3rd, with 82 points, not 69. And would have finished way above Arsenal. Which is what many of us expected. Not the abject collapse and 4th place finish by the skin of our teeth that we have had, with red faces (again).

Not good enough.
New manager needed.
New investment needed.

If the Spurs board allow Redknapp anywhere near large transfer funds, I worry. Saha and Nelsen is about his level.

You say it's only fair to assess the whole season, which you then go on to summarise. But then you only base your conclusion on the bad patch!

You don't give any actual credit to the management and coaching for the fantastic first part of the season. Not only that, but you even use it as a stick to beat them with.

You say yourself that at the beginning of the season that you expected cl qualification, and yet you now want management sacked even though we might have achieved it.

I totally understand why people are disappointed not to finish 3rd, I'm actually feeling kind of devastated. But to call the season a horror story is ridiculous.

Is no one else getting bored of this forum constantly descending into the same arguments with the same people on each side? If this was the 'real world' we would have stopped talking to each other a long time ago, but for some reason I can't tear myself away from these arguments. Even if they increasingly make me want to call everyone thick c@nts in a fit of frustrated rage

 

[elltrev]

but after 25 games we had 53 points, that is more than just a decent run of games, that is two thirds of a season when we would have played all the the teams at least once and another 6 twice

yes, that period includes the games against the Manchester clubs, games against Arse, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, still we coped, still we gathered enough points to be comfortably 3rd

we'll just have to agree to disagree

But it was the next 3 games that Killed us - away to arse, home to united, away to everton. Arsenal caught up 9 points in 3 games. The mood had already shifted by the time we played home to stoke, and the players just lost confidence. And throughout our bad phase we had a lot of undeservedly bad results in terms of chances created by each team. And I'm sure the Harry to englandntalk had an effect on everyone.

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Then they need to have a lie down! Are we really saying we're as far in front of Arsenal and Chelsea as we are behind Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project? Because that is what another 10 points would imply. If he'd managed that he would have walked manager of the year IMO.

The season just gone:

Chelsea had a manager who didn't work, and it showed in results.

Arsenal? Take RVP out this season, and they would have been mid table. That was a known quantity in advance too.

Emirates Marketing Project. Early days for them as a real force, but continued investment over the next few seasons, with more experience, will see them up with Barca, IMHO.

Man Utd. The consistent threat. One always to fear.

We could and should have got another 10 points last season:

Drawing at home to Stoke, and Wolves. Losing at home to Norwich. Losing at QPR. There is 10 points for starters. We should have won all those. Lets not even mention the Villa fiasco a week ago.

And if Redknapp was/is England manager material, he certainly should have been capable of that level and standard.

 

[indianspur]

But it was the next 3 games that Killed us - away to arse, home to united, away to everton. Arsenal caught up 9 points in 3 games. The mood had already shifted by the time we played home to stoke, and the players just lost confidence. And throughout our bad phase we had a lot of undeservedly bad results in terms of chances created by each team. And I'm sure the Harry to englandntalk had an effect on everyone.

i think if the club is to take the next step up, we have to learn, the players, the manager, the fans, not to lose confidence when a few results go against us. I do hope lessons have been learned, what doesnt kill you only makes you stronger and all that, and next season we show that we deserve to belong in the top 3. (of course if we hold onto our best players and cleverly add to them as well)

 

[Poker Boy]

Same brick different day.

Because that's how it works! Every team in the league can say we should have won this match we should have won that match

 

[Jurgen the German]

You can analyse any game and say "we should have won there", but every team in the league can say that. Whilst it's obvious that our form from the end of Feb till April cost us, you'll drive yourself crazy if you look at individual games and say "that cost us". You have to ultimately judge the season as a whole.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

but after 25 games we had 53 points, that is more than just a decent run of games, that is two thirds of a season when we would have played all the the teams at least once and another 6 twice

yes, that period includes the games against the Manchester clubs, games against Arse, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, still we coped, still we gathered enough points to be comfortably 3rd

Yet we were fairly consistent overall. During the period you describe we still lost to Man Utd and City (twice), drew with Chelsea at home, lost at Stoke, drew away at Swansea, drew at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, drew against Wolves. If this was during the title form, then, in this context, the 9 game 'collapse', when you consider the similar quality opposition, wasn't all that incredible. Fact is, we had a long period after the first two games when we didn't have much of an away test, in particular. Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool at home are winnable, IMO. The vast majority of the remaning games up until City away were against bottom half opposition. Then the 9 game run came and certainly Arsenal away, Man Utd at home, Chelsea away, Everton away, Sunderland away.... these are different propositions to the games we'd had in the period before that.

Quite simply, it comes down to this: do you think we are closer to Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project than Arsenal and Chelsea? I think we're closer to the latter by far. Therefore, not a major surprise that we had a blip.

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Season runs over 38 games, not 10, 15, 25 or even 37. Form fluctuates, injuries happen (and a lot of the time we don't even know it because the players play with them), certain players are "fairweather" and don't like the winter as much, certain players play better when the pitches aren't as firm or run true etc. The fixture list can make it so a run of 15 games is significantly easier than the next 15.

The bottom line is the larger sample size you use, the more accurate the truth. The bigger the sample size, the less variance. A few games, even half of them, during the course of a season isn't a big enough sample size.

Aw come off it MK! #-o How many more excuses? The beef has been that you only judge over 38 games, or a season. I have done exactly that.

The bottom line is that Spurs collapsed catestrophically in February from the Arse game, and went from an average of 2.12 points per game, to 0.67. That has cost us bigtime. The reasons for this many be more than one, but from where I am, it all points to the manager.

 

[yiddo2786]

Form when the England job was filled: P28 W18 D6 L4 Pts: 60 PPG: 2.14

Form when it was open: P10 W2 D3 L5 Pts: 9 PPG: 0.9

 

[elltrev]

The season just gone:

Chelsea had a manager who didn't work, and it showed in results.

Arsenal? Take RVP out this season, and they would have been mid table. That was a known quantity in advance too.

Emirates Marketing Project. Early days for them as a real force, but continued investment over the next few seasons, with more experience, will see them up with Barca, IMHO.

Man Utd. The consistent threat. One always to fear.

We could and should have got another 10 points last season:

Drawing at home to Stoke, and Wolves. Losing at home to Norwich. Losing at QPR. There is 10 points for starters. We should have won all those. Lets not even mention the Villa fiasco a week ago.

And if Redknapp was/is England manager material, he certainly should have been capable of that level and standard.

fudge me. Again, you're totally ignoring the fantastic run we went on at the beginning of the season. You complain about the games we should have won but didn't, but totally take for granted all the games that we did win.

Yes, maybe we should have beaten Norwich at home. But maybe we should have lost away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine? Or lost away to Chelsea? Or drawn away to Fulham? Or drawn at home to Arsenal? Or lost away to Sunderland, as city did. Or lost at home to Blackburn, as united did. Or lost at home to Wigan, like arsenal did. Or lost at home to villa, like Chelsea did.

We've had some bad results and some good results. We've had an amazing start and a crap finish. OVERALL we've been good and finished 4th, meeting your preseason expectations.

 

[chicken_badge]

I think the pattern of the fixtures had a certain factor in our form, both up and down.
We got hammered early doors by the Manc clubs but then that meant our toughest opposition were out of the way for 20 matches. With Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all experiencing a poor run in that time we just built on momentum.

In a similar way, our horrific spell is centred around games with Mancs again, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool. 2 points out of 18 in those games. Yes, we have to hold our hands up and rue the points dropped at Arsenal, and even how we failed to kill off both scouse sides and Chelsea. We should have held the two-hill lead at Emirates, or beaten Norwich at home or Villa away. But equally, we partly got into this position because Arsenal had an uncharacteristically bad first half of the year, and somehow kept Van Persie fit.