So, your final thoughts 2011-2012 season?

[indianspur]

Why don't you do it? Otherwise agree with the OP and move on.

 

[charlietheyid]

What worries me is our form in big games away from Home. 4 defeats and 3 draws in 7 games against the top 8.

 

[indianspur]

Levy was itching for an excuse to sack Jol. Not exactly the same circumstances I would say.

why did Jol give Levy the itches?

 

[Raziel]

Why don't you do it? Otherwise agree with the OP and move on.

becaue I couldn't be bothered and it's the OP who is trying to prove a point.

If his point is it's a "horror story" and is grounds for new squad/manager/investment, then we have to have a point of reference. If as example the Scum had a similar run, does it mean that Wenger should have been fired? or does this judgement really only to "hang" Harry?

 

[COYS]

Jog on. You expect a team to go through the season without a blip? Go and support Emirates Marketing Project.

tinkle off mate! A 'blip' doesn't usually last 9 fudging games!

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Between 26th February 2012 and 21st April 2012

Spurs played 9 league games and got 6 points. Thats an average of 0.67 points per game.

The collapse. Appalling. Disastrous. Way clear of Arsenal. Clear daylight. Utter capitulation and nose-dive (for the second season running). Remarkable coincidence is that the England manager job becomes available, at precisely the start of that period, and our manager is a virtual cert for the job, not least due to help from his media mates. In fact Capello has the common decency to resign on the same day that Redknapp is 'cleared' from court, for tax evasion, too. Nice timing for the FA, that! Numerous press utterings by our manager over the next few weeks near sever Redknapp's ties with Spurs. Extraordinary dis-loyalty. Time for a change? But no

But your missing the point on looking at the whole season with this. The fixtures never give you a season full of games against evenly matched teams. You'll have tougher periods and easier periods. You've picked the worst period of form with possibly the hardest run of games. Of course there had to be a period like this or wouldn't have finished 4th! We would have won the league!

Look at the 9 games you talk about: Arsenal away, Man Utd at home, Everton away, Stoke home, Chelsea away, Swansea at home, Sunderland away, Norwich at home and QPR away. If we'd picked up 16-19 points from that 9 then we would have been talking championships, which would have been extraordinary. We didn't do it because we aren't that good.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

tinkle off mate! A 'blip' doesn't usually last 9 fudging games!

What are you on? Emirates Marketing Project's 9 games up and including the defeat at Arsenal on 8th April: Played 9 Points 8. They also went out of the Europa League to Sporting Lisbon. OMG! Collapse! Appalling! Disastrous! Utter capitulation and nose-dive etc etc. And nowhere near as tough as our fixtures, by the way.

 

[tommysvr]

The fact is 2 more points and this post wouldn't exist. After a collapse? Terrible season then!

You all need to fudging cheer up.

 

[indianspur]

But your missing the point on looking at the whole season with this. The fixtures never give you a season full of games against evenly matched teams. You'll have tougher periods and easier periods. You've picked the worst period of form with possibly the hardest run of games. Of course there had to be a period like this or wouldn't have finished 4th! We would have won the league!

Look at the 9 games you talk about: Arsenal away, Man Utd at home, Everton away, Stoke home, Chelsea away, Swansea at home, Sunderland away, Norwich at home and QPR away. If we'd picked up 16-19 points from that 9 then we would have been talking championships, which would have been extraordinary. We didn't do it because we aren't that good.

maybe some believe that we are that good, that an overall total of 69 points after 38 games, with this squad, is at least 10 points less than what they could achieve.

just because we had a seemingly difficult run of games is no excuse for the collapse during that period.

just like Emirates Marketing Project, despite all their money, had to overcome that inadequate mindset, believing that if its going to go wrong it will go wrong attitude, Spurs too have to stop believing that 4th is the best we can settle for. We have a damn fine squad of players, good chairman, good manager, plenty in our favour to finish as 3rd best in the league this season.

 

[indianspur]

What are you on? Emirates Marketing Project's 9 games up and including the defeat at Arsenal on 8th April: Played 9 Points 8. They also went out of the Europa League to Sporting Lisbon. OMG! Collapse! Appalling! Disastrous! Utter capitulation and nose-dive etc etc. And nowhere near as tough as our fixtures, by the way.

Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton, Villa, Chelsea....wins
Stoke, Sunderland.....draws
Swansea, Arsenal......losses

that makes 9 games, 17 points.......hardly a collapse of Tottenham proportions!!!

 

[Harry_Perkins]

maybe some believe that we are that good

Then they need to have a lie down! Are we really saying we're as far in front of Arsenal and Chelsea as we are behind Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project? Because that is what another 10 points would imply. If he'd managed that he would have walked manager of the year IMO.

 

[indianspur]

What are you on? Emirates Marketing Project's 9 games up and including the defeat at Arsenal on 8th April: Played 9 Points 8. They also went out of the Europa League to Sporting Lisbon. OMG! Collapse! Appalling! Disastrous! Utter capitulation and nose-dive etc etc. And nowhere near as tough as our fixtures, by the way.

Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton, Villa, Chelsea....wins
Stoke, Sunderland.....draws
Swansea, Arsenal......losses

that makes 9 games, 17 points.......hardly a collapse of Tottenham proportions!!!

 

[indianspur]

Then they need to have a lie down! Are we really saying we're as far in front of Arsenal and Chelsea as we are behind Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project? Because that is what another 10 points would imply. If he'd managed that he would have walked manager of the year IMO.

well when we went to City, werent we just 5 points behind??

i do think their is a mental problem that surrounds our club, that we dont believe we deserve to be better than we are. Its not surprising after so many years without success, for a large part of the season we were comfortably the third best team in the country, close to the top 2, showing title winning form, lauded by many on the outside, and then it all went t*ts up. If we were good enough to get into that position, then surely we were good enough to remain there

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton, Villa, Chelsea....wins
Stoke, Sunderland.....draws
Swansea, Arsenal......losses

that makes 9 games, 17 points.......hardly a collapse of Tottenham proportions!!!

Well for one, I ****ed up by counting 7 games and I missed the Chelsea result. So it was 11 points from 7 games. If 7 games is not a blip for the Champions then why not 9 for the team in 4th? If there blip has been any bigger then they wouldn't have won the league!

 

[Harry_Perkins]

well when we went to City, werent we just 5 points behind??

i do think their is a mental problem that surrounds our club, that we dont believe we deserve to be better than we are. Its not surprising after so many years without success, for a large part of the season we were comfortably the third best team in the country, close to the top 2, showing title winning form, lauded by many on the outside, and then it all went t*ts up. If we were good enough to get into that position, then surely we were good enough to remain there

This doesn't really follow at all. I remember us being 2nd at Christmas under Gerry Francis. Again, anyone who thinks we should have been challenging for the title that year needs to have a long lie down. There are loads of similar examples of teams 'getting up there' but clearly not being good enough to challenge for the title. It happens nearly every year. And the mental issue, I think this is a bit of a crutch for fans, more than anything. The same as having to try and blame the whole England situation for the results. There is an unwillingness to just accept that this is the way football is. Unless a convincing case can be made for some particularly poor decisions from the manager etc then the case isn't made. And I don't think it is with Redknapp. We had plenty of people on here cofidently predicting 3 or 4 points maximum from the last 4 games and mocking anyone who thought we could turn it around. What happened?

 

[indianspur]

This doesn't really follow at all. I remember us being 2nd at Christmas under Gerry Francis. Again, anyone who thinks we should have been challenging for the title that year needs to have a long lie down. There are loads of similar examples of teams 'getting up there' but clearly not being good enough to challenge for the title. It happens nearly every year. And the mental issue, I think this is a bit of a crutch for fans, more than anything. The same as having to try and blame the whole England situation for the results. There is an unwillingness to just accept that this is the way football is. Unless a convincing case can be made for some particularly poor decisions from the manager etc then the case isn't made. And I don't think it is with Redknapp. We had plenty of people on here cofidently predicting 3 or 4 points maximum from the last 4 games and mocking anyone who thought we could turn it around. What happened?

so what is your conclusion then???

why did we manage 53 points from 25 games, and then 16 points from the final 13 games??? what was the change from the title challenging form for two thirds of the campaign to the final third collapse???? thats just the way football is???

 

[Sheffield Spur]

well when we went to City, werent we just 5 points behind??

i do think their is a mental problem that surrounds our club, that we dont believe we deserve to be better than we are. Its not surprising after so many years without success, for a large part of the season we were comfortably the third best team in the country, close to the top 2, showing title winning form, lauded by many on the outside, and then it all went t*ts up. If we were good enough to get into that position, then surely we were good enough to remain there

Yes..... yes....yes. A zillion times yes. The Spurs mindset disease, which is something that the manager should sort. THE MANAGER. Its part of his role. Would Clough or Now SAF tolerate this?

We were cruising, and then its iceberg time.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Why can't people see this? jol was sacked for a poor start after finishing 5th

They wanted Jol out in the Summer, they were talking to Ramos after just one match. Jol said at the weekend that he was really fired for not qualifying for the Champions League in his second season. After that it was just a matter of time until he got the boot.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Since it has been - repeatedly - mentioned, that an assessment on Spurs shouldn't be until the end of the season, i.e. until 38 games have been played, I'll oblige. Over the full season. Fair enough.

Between August 2011 and Mid-February 2012

Spurs played 25 league games and got 53 points. Thats an average of 2.12 points per game.

We were cruising, and SAF said we were playing the best football. We were, and looked like beating anyone. Challenging for the title was mentioned by 'the pundits' and a top 3 finish was expected by the same, let alone fans. Qualification for the CL was my pre-season expectation, with the squad we have. After the shocking form of Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, I and many fans expected that end result moreso. At least.

Then......

Between 26th February 2012 and 21st April 2012

Spurs played 9 league games and got 6 points. Thats an average of 0.67 points per game.

The collapse. Appalling. Disastrous. Way clear of Arsenal. Clear daylight. Utter capitulation and nose-dive (for the second season running). Remarkable coincidence is that the England manager job becomes available, at precisely the start of that period, and our manager is a virtual cert for the job, not least due to help from his media mates. In fact Capello has the common decency to resign on the same day that Redknapp is 'cleared' from court, for tax evasion, too. Nice timing for the FA, that! Numerous press utterings by our manager over the next few weeks near sever Redknapp's ties with Spurs. Extraordinary dis-loyalty. Time for a change? But no.


Between Late April and End of Season May 2012

Spurs played 4 league games and got 10 points. Thats an average of 2.50 points per game.

A late rally of sorts, remarkably timed following Redknapp not getting the England job, and an enforced stay at Spurs. Three wins and a draw. Sounds good, except that four wins were needed (as said Redknapp himself) to secure 3rd. Which by then was looking a neccessity to secure CL. Spurs draw at an appaling Aston Villa, who shortly after sack their manager after one year, for poor performance. A win against Fulham in the last game allows a thankful Arsenal to finish in 3rd, as they too win. Turning a 10 point gap (with them behind Spurs), to being 1 point ahead. Spurs now have to rely on arch-enemy Chelsea to lose in the CL Final, to allow Spurs to get CL football next season.

Conclusion

This isn't a report, but more of a horror story! We should have WALKED 3rd place this season, with the Goons, Chelsea and Liverpool being in such a state. To blow up, again, for the second season running, points the finger at the management.

If we replace the 0.67 points per game collapse period (9 games) of February to April as per above, and use the average points per game of the earlier season (2.12 points per game) instead, we find that Spurs would have finished solidly in 3rd, with 82 points, not 69. And would have finished way above Arsenal. Which is what many of us expected. Not the abject collapse and 4th place finish by the skin of our teeth that we have had, with red faces (again).

Not good enough.
New manager needed.
New investment needed.

If the Spurs board allow Redknapp anywhere near large transfer funds, I worry. Saha and Nelsen is about his level.

Season runs over 38 games, not 10, 15, 25 or even 37. Form fluctuates, injuries happen (and a lot of the time we don't even know it because the players play with them), certain players are "fairweather" and don't like the winter as much, certain players play better when the pitches aren't as firm or run true etc. The fixture list can make it so a run of 15 games is significantly easier than the next 15.

The bottom line is the larger sample size you use, the more accurate the truth. The bigger the sample size, the less variance. A few games, even half of them, during the course of a season isn't a big enough sample size.

 

[indianspur]

Season runs over 38 games, not 10, 15, 25 or even 37. Form fluctuates, injuries happen (and a lot of the time we don't even know it because the players play with them), certain players are "fairweather" and don't like the winter as much, certain players play better when the pitches aren't as firm or run true etc. The fixture list can make it so a run of 15 games is significantly easier than the next 15.

The bottom line is the larger sample size you use, the more accurate the truth. The bigger the sample size, the less variance. A few games, even half of them, during the course of a season isn't a big enough sample size.

im sure there are enough excuses there to cover the collapse and give the players and management get out of jail cards