So, what happened today?

[spurspinter1]

Do you think folks are able to make a distinction between rape and taking a photo? I guess its a prime opportunity to test out the latest theoretical responses; regardless of slander or even just a neighborly consideration for treating others as you yourself would wish to be treated. At the least it feels churlish to jump to conclusions and imply judgments on others without knowing the full detail, just so people can exercise the current PC protocols.

Only you have mentioned rape, fudge knows why. The details have been laid out pretty plain and clear, even with a backstory a day later to attempt to make something appear more reasonable, it's still what it is.

What's always funny in these discussions is that the people who have called out something that seems problematic are suddenly made out to be the bad guys ie the "self appointed moral police". As if it's a bad thing to be bothered about morals like this is some sort of Mad Max level world where common decency is apparently a flaw, it's fascinating.

 

[parklane1]

Sounds like a case of Mountains made out of Molehills to me.

 

[thfcsteff]

Only you have mentioned rape, fudge knows why. The details have been laid out pretty plain and clear, even with a backstory a day later to attempt to make something appear more reasonable, it's still what it is.

What's always funny in these discussions is that the people who have called out something that seems problematic are suddenly made out to be the bad guys ie the "self appointed moral police". As if it's a bad thing to be bothered about morals like this is some sort of Mad Max level world where common decency is apparently a flaw, it's fascinating.

Sadly the world is now becoming increasingly 'staffed' by folks who feel that their 'rights' have been 'destroyed' by 'the woke phalanx'...I have my own lines and feelings on what is too far over the line of 'PC' and what isn't, but yes, I wholeheartedly agree that it is a shame that
a) common decency now becomes a tool of 'threat' in some cases, and
b) whatever the different perceptions, there's an increasing inability to be able to discuss differences or, indeed, accept that there will be differences in many situations.

As for SpurMeUp's question, frankly it tinkled me off so much that I couldn't reply directly. What a fudging pathetic thing it was to say/ask. This is obviously an indirect, but it might save us all.

 

[spurspinter1]

Sadly the world is now becoming increasingly 'staffed' by folks who feel that their 'rights' have been 'destroyed' by 'the woke phalanx'...I have my own lines and feelings on what is too far over the line of 'PC' and what isn't, but yes, I wholeheartedly agree that it is a shame that
a) common decency now becomes a tool of 'threat' in some cases, and
b) whatever the different perceptions, there's an increasing inability to be able to discuss differences or, indeed, accept that there will be differences in many situations.

As for SpurMeUp's question, frankly it tinkled me off so much that I couldn't reply directly. What a fudging pathetic thing it was to say/ask. This is obviously an indirect, but it might save us all.

I'm probably guilty of point B but tbh when people get challenged and immediately jump to overreacting to a reasonable reaction to something that is at best problematic, and then eventually going down the "actually it was just a joke and you have no sense of humour" route it is disappointing. At that point I can go a bit scorched earth which doesn't always help (understatement). But that gaslighting routine is just a way for any conflict / discussion to be everyone else's fault other than the actual perpetrator.

But yeah it's an absurd question though, nobody has conflated rape with taking a photo of someone without consent so to suggest that is pretty wild.

If your feathers are ruffled by what you post being questioned, go find an echo chamber where people are all going to chortle and clap like seals at whatever heinous brick you want to post, that isn't going to be here as there are still some decent posters around who will challenge it. Is the following discussion going to change people's perspectives? Probably not but it's good to work out which side of the fence we sit on. I remain on the "it's not okay to take upskirt pics of women" side but for other people I guess it's cool to do because who does it hurt? It's not always as binary as that of course and it's an exaggerated take on the discussion drawn from points made. We men sometimes get a bad rep but sometimes it's pretty fudging well deserved!

 

[SpurMeUp]

Only you have mentioned rape, fudge knows why.

Because the attacks on posters are almost cliches applied often in response to people trying to defend rape by saying someone dressed in a certain way etc. I am amazed you're not familiar with this.

The details have been laid out pretty plain and clear, even with a backstory a day later to attempt to make something appear more reasonable, it's still what it is.

What's always funny in these discussions is that the people who have called out something that seems problematic are suddenly made out to be the bad guys ie the "self appointed moral police". As if it's a bad thing to be bothered about morals like this is some sort of Mad Max level world where common decency is apparently a flaw, it's fascinating.

I wouldn't say its funny. I know it is well meaning, but there is a sanctimonious, holier than thou element which is uncomfortable. Who are you to make moral judgements based on slim information? It feels good to tell others off, to gain the moral high ground, improve the world? Well...a page back you endorsed the exploitation of women within pornography. Now I am not going to cast aspersions or pass judgement about what you do or do not do in your personal life. But I would note that few women grow up wishing to be porn stars. You're comfortable casting aspersions with scant information, but if others do the same to you, is that okay?

 

[spurspinter1]

Because the attacks on posters are almost cliches applied often in response to people trying to defend rape by saying someone dressed in a certain way etc. I am amazed you're not familiar with this.



I wouldn't say its funny. I know it is well meaning, but there is a sanctimonious, holier than thou element which is uncomfortable. Who are you to make moral judgements based on slim information? It feels good to tell others off, to gain the moral high ground, improve the world? Well...a page back you endorsed the exploitation of women within pornography. Now I am not going to cast aspersions or pass judgement about what you do or do not do in your personal life. But I would note that few women grow up wishing to be porn stars. You're comfortable casting aspersions with scant information, but if others do the same to you, is that okay?

I'm aware of horrendous behavior being justified by the claim that victims of sexual assault or similar acts are occasionally blamed on the victim for their attire but I still don't see how your question is related or even possibly vaguely helpful. Nobody is accusing anyone of rape, only you have suggested it's been conflated for fudge knows why. Seems like hyperbole to make a position look ridiculous but it's you who has imagined that position so......


So you remember when I said willing adult entertainers? I'm not sure it's exploitation (well any more than any job out there is exploitation but that's a whole other subject). I endorse people to work in whichever industry they choose and that all work environments should be a safe place with workers rights. I'm not sure that endorsement is such a bad thing but maybe there's a discussion to be had but it seems like clutching at some tenuous straws for the sake of it. Adult performers are paid to get people off, someone walking down the street hasn't signed up to the role of being in an amateur photographer's rolodex of filth, it's a fairly simple point but you're entitled to misconstrue it to your hearts content.

You might think it is sanctimonious to suggest that one probably shouldn't take sly lewd pics of women in public, I think that's a fairly reasonable take. I'm not sure it feels good to tell someone off, it's just an embarrassing look for the forum if person say troubling brick and no one questions it, it's symptomatic of the world where it may be easier just to mind your own but if you don't stand for something you fall for anything. Even if just to discuss the issue and get more detail, I never claim to be right all the time and have also made a dingdong out of myself many a time on here in various ways. If someone calls me out reasonably I'll at least try to understand the person's perspective not just call everyone a virtue signaling soyboy and blame it on woke or whatever.

Edit - Whilst I'm not trying to get a last word in, I wonder if this can go anywhere positive, and whether it's worth moving on and hopefully having the thread go back to general daily whimsical goings on (without me writing essays without really getting anywhere), I'm sure there can be a dedicated thread in the vice den for voyeurism if people really want to crack on with that and I'll do my best not to get involved..

 

[SpurMeUp]

I'm aware of horrendous behavior being justified by the claim that victims of sexual assault or similar acts are occasionally blamed on the victim for their attire but I still don't see how your question is related or even possibly vaguely helpful. Nobody is accusing anyone of rape, only you have suggested it's been conflated for fudge knows why. Seems like hyperbole to make a position look ridiculous but it's you who has imagined that position so......

Only you have mentioned 'accusing people of rape' I believe. I wasn't comfortable with the aspersions cast at posters and the use of cliches associated with rape defense and condemnation.

So you remember when I said willing adult entertainers?

To paraphrase an earlier post, she told you she was willing did she?

I'm not sure it's exploitation (well any more than any job out there is exploitation but that's a whole other subject). I endorse people to work in whichever industry they choose and that all work environments should be a safe place with workers rights. I'm not sure that endorsement is such a bad thing but maybe there's a discussion to be had but it seems like clutching at some tenuous straws for the sake of it. Adult performers are paid to get people off, someone walking down the street hasn't signed up to the role of being in an amateur photographer's rolodex of filth, it's a fairly simple point but you're entitled to misconstrue it to your hearts content.

You might think it is sanctimonious to suggest that one probably shouldn't take sly lewd pics of women in public, I think that's a fairly reasonable take. I'm not sure it feels good to tell someone off, it's just an embarrassing look for the forum if person say troubling brick and no one questions it, it's symptomatic of the world where it may be easier just to mind your own but if you don't stand for something you fall for anything. Even if just to discuss the issue and get more detail, I never claim to be right all the time and have also made a dingdong out of myself many a time on here in various ways. If someone calls me out reasonably I'll at least try to understand the person's perspective not just call everyone a virtue signaling soyboy and blame it on woke or whatever.

"Sly lewd pics of women in public"...just shows that you don't really have all the info. How would you know they are sly lewd etc. Do we know if the women was a cheerleader at work or an off duty nun! We don't know. What we know is you endorsed graphic images of nude women, but a perfectly legal image of women with clothes on is enough to attack people over.

I am not saying I was wholly comfortable with it either, and I understand why it was flagged, but we shouldn't make judgements about others or cast aspersions without really knowing the detail.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Edit - Whilst I'm not trying to get a last word in, I wonder if this can go anywhere positive, and whether it's worth moving on and hopefully having the thread go back to general daily whimsical goings on (without me writing essays without really getting anywhere), I'm sure there can be a dedicated thread in the vice den for voyeurism if people really want to crack on with that and I'll do my best not to get involved..

Yes yes agreed. I think it was worth flagging up, but also we don't know the detail, and I personally wouldn't like to be attacked for taking clothed photos of people, using language associated with pretty serious big issues. So six of one half a dozen of the other n all that.

 

[P.D.]

It’s the way to go now!

You can also work well on trains I find. In Europe there are more and more sleeper services. But why can’t you take a train at 10pm from London and wake up in Zuric or the south of France?

We need to tax aviation fuel globally. And incentivise new overnight rail services.

It's worse, HS2 should have gone to St Pancras then it could have all been integrated with euro tunnel. In the future you could have done Manchester to Zurich etc.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It's worse, HS2 should have gone to St Pancras then it could have all been integrated with euro tunnel. In the future you could have done Manchester to Zurich etc.

Ah back to trains, thank you! It is a great point. Manchester to Zurich overnight train has to be future! Unless there are amazing leaps forward with light weight batteries for planes, we are going to have to embrace an almost Victorian-like love of slow travel. I am all for it.

 

[glasgowspur]

I'm aware of horrendous behavior being justified by the claim that victims of sexual assault or similar acts are occasionally blamed on the victim for their attire but I still don't see how your question is related or even possibly vaguely helpful. Nobody is accusing anyone of rape, only you have suggested it's been conflated for fudge knows why. Seems like hyperbole to make a position look ridiculous but it's you who has imagined that position so......


So you remember when I said willing adult entertainers? I'm not sure it's exploitation (well any more than any job out there is exploitation but that's a whole other subject). I endorse people to work in whichever industry they choose and that all work environments should be a safe place with workers rights. I'm not sure that endorsement is such a bad thing but maybe there's a discussion to be had but it seems like clutching at some tenuous straws for the sake of it. Adult performers are paid to get people off, someone walking down the street hasn't signed up to the role of being in an amateur photographer's rolodex of filth, it's a fairly simple point but you're entitled to misconstrue it to your hearts content.

You might think it is sanctimonious to suggest that one probably shouldn't take sly lewd pics of women in public, I think that's a fairly reasonable take. I'm not sure it feels good to tell someone off, it's just an embarrassing look for the forum if person say troubling brick and no one questions it, it's symptomatic of the world where it may be easier just to mind your own but if you don't stand for something you fall for anything. Even if just to discuss the issue and get more detail, I never claim to be right all the time and have also made a dingdong out of myself many a time on here in various ways. If someone calls me out reasonably I'll at least try to understand the person's perspective not just call everyone a virtue signaling soyboy and blame it on woke or whatever.

Edit - Whilst I'm not trying to get a last word in, I wonder if this can go anywhere positive, and whether it's worth moving on and hopefully having the thread go back to general daily whimsical goings on (without me writing essays without really getting anywhere), I'm sure there can be a dedicated thread in the vice den for voyeurism if people really want to crack on with that and I'll do my best not to get involved..

Genuine question, not being down with the latest jargon, what's a soyboy?
Don't want to Google it and end up with inappropriate ads, and apologies in advance if it's a typo

 

[Kandi1977]

Genuine question, not being down with the latest jargon, what's a soyboy?
Don't want to Google it and end up with inappropriate ads, and apologies in advance if it's a typo

From wiki: Soy boy is a pejorative term sometimes used in online communities to describe men perceived to be lacking masculine characteristics.

 

[spurspinter1]

Yes yes agreed. I think it was worth flagging up, but also we don't know the detail, and I personally wouldn't like to be attacked for taking clothed photos of people, using language associated with pretty serious big issues. So six of one half a dozen of the other n all that.

I'm 95% certain that you waded in with seemingly unnecessary conflations of rape, i have just checked and it was unequivocally you. Not sure what your bag is, whether you are intentionally trying to muddy the waters but none of it is helpful or amusing imo

I guess we don't agree with each others label's of the situation, it's hardly "attacking someone" to call in to question their behavior when posting something of this nature, you're doing your best to make someone out to be the victim - It's a bit lawyer-y but that's only my opinion of course.

I'm also not going to entertain whatever you're going for with the endorsement of adult entertainers point or "she told you she was willing", I've already spelled it out once and I don't think I have directly talked to any people starring in porn so when asked to clarify you've gone even further off the tracks. I've tried to understand what you're talking about but to no avail.

Humans naturally make judgements on things and it's a discussion board, if some people can't tolerate being judged don't post weird brick. Or take it to the vice den. That's me out, I've made my point.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Vice Den?

Where's that?

 

[Kandi1977]

Vice Den?

Where's that?

The Adult content section of the forum was called the 'Vice Den' before. Now it's 'The Glory-glory Hole'.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Directions would be helpful.

 

[Kandi1977]

Directions would be helpful.

It's at the top in the general section (The cheese room) for me. Might need an admin to give you access to it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I'm 95% certain that you waded in with seemingly unnecessary conflations of rape, i have just checked and it was unequivocally you. Not sure what your bag is, whether you are intentionally trying to muddy the waters but none of it is helpful or amusing imo

I guess we don't agree with each others label's of the situation, it's hardly "attacking someone" to call in to question their behavior when posting something of this nature, you're doing your best to make someone out to be the victim - It's a bit lawyer-y but that's only my opinion of course.

I'm also not going to entertain whatever you're going for with the endorsement of adult entertainers point or "she told you she was willing", I've already spelled it out once and I don't think I have directly talked to any people starring in porn so when asked to clarify you've gone even further off the tracks. I've tried to understand what you're talking about but to no avail.

Humans naturally make judgements on things and it's a discussion board, if some people can't tolerate being judged don't post weird brick. Or take it to the vice den. That's me out, I've made my point.

Keep up the good fight, condemning people who take legal photos of clothed people...while endorsing pornography and graphic nudity, with all of its associations of exploitation. No irony whatsoever. I've made my point too.

 

[glasgowspur]

From wiki: Soy boy is a pejorative term sometimes used in online communities to describe men perceived to be lacking masculine characteristics.

Ta, other than here and one modelling forum (plastic aircraft before there's any confusion) that's full of sad old gits like me I don't do online communities.
Had bad experiences on golf and photography ones many years ago and gave it up as a bad idea.

 

[Kandi1977]

Ta, other than here and one modelling forum (plastic aircraft before there's any confusion) that's full of sad old gits like me I don't do online communities.
Had bad experiences on golf and photography ones many years ago and gave it up as a bad idea.

Never seen the term either, but took the chance of a Google search