Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
The two things are not mutually exclusive. Set pieces have absolutely no impact on the way we play the game from open play. They are totally distinct and separate issues.
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Set Pieces
- Thread starter DHSF
- Start date
The two things are not mutually exclusive. Set pieces have absolutely no impact on the way we play the game from open play. They are totally distinct and separate issues.
How many of the world's best footballers are of a stature that would benefit us in a set piece situation?
Which part of the rest of our training regime would you sacrifice in order to focus on a very low return form of attack?
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
Hi @milo I am really not that interested in how other teams fare. I would however be prepared to have a friendly wager with you that with our available weaponary ( Trippier/Eriksen/Rose delivery combined with the enviable aerial power we are able to muster) that we will score more goals from corners this upcoming season adopting the starting tactic I am advocating than the paltry five goals from corners that we scored last season. Also, I will be entirely confident of betting that our CBs will beat their combined total of last year - after all that shouldn't be difficult as their combined total iirc was zero.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
On Q1, We don't need new recruits to improve our return in this area. We currently have all the weaponary necessary to succeed here. Maguire and Mina, to name but two, would however definitely add additional threat from set pieces.
On Q2, we have argued this point ad infinitum before. You don't think there is room for practicing corners in our "finite" training time. I do not think training time is absolutely finite and therefore don't believe something else needs to be sacrificed. So let's leave it there.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that it is quite likely that we score more from corners this season than last. The average for the league is 7 goals from corners a season. We scored 7 in 2016/17 and 10 in 2015/16 (the second highest that season). This would fit with the evidence that differences between clubs are largely down to a variation on a range rather than more time spent on corners seeing a return.
1) Who would they replace in our first team? Would the expense justify a small chance of a small increase in the xG of a very low probability event?
2) If your belief is true, then it naturally follows that Poch is leaving training time unused. He is not using every tool to his advantage to make us a better team. Does that strike you as in his character? What reasoning would you put behind him choosing not to use all the training time available to him? Do you think he feels the team is complete? Are you sure that set pieces are the best way to spend any extra training time you think there is?
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I think that displays a common misconception about set pieces (corners especially).
Our attackers have a very small area into which we must head the ball to be successful. The defenders can head it almost anywhere in any direction to be successful. If we are as much as even in heading ability (and that would be rare because we're set up to play football when many opponents aren't) then the return rate will be very, very low.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
In tournament football -with the amount of matches and distances to travel between games- rest and recovery are every bit as important as anything you'd do. I maintain that training would've been light and not too intense on either actions or tactics, given that most countries had already established a system of play. Given what we came into the tournament with -and given those parameters- I believe that set-pieces were the smartest way of England taking advantage of the time they had available versus a familiar style with appropriate personnel. I was discussing this with a mate earlier and he said Mou said something similar on Russian TV. I will try to find it.
I don't disagree with you. What I mean is, if you have someone who can more accurately put the ball into specific areas for our players to attack, that's gonna be more effective than other players who put a higher percentage of their deliveries straight into the first man.
I'm not sure. Based on the fact that a ball delivered into the middle has a slightly better chance of the opponent scoring than the attacker (which takes into account all corners from good to bad and indifferent), maybe a corner that hits the first man will have more in common with a short corner and be a better option. Assuming the first man isn't able to control it, of course.
Haven't really looked into it. It's such a low probability event in either direction it's virtually meaningless.
milo
Jack L. Jones
@the dza @scaramanga I've linked to this article before but it addresses some of the first man points you are discussing
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...fence-of-the-corner-a-much-maligned-set-piece
I'm worried that P55 will read this and start a campaign in the stadium thread for a rebuild of the new stadium to allow a better run up for our corner takers.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...fence-of-the-corner-a-much-maligned-set-piece
I'm worried that P55 will read this and start a campaign in the stadium thread for a rebuild of the new stadium to allow a better run up for our corner takers.
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johnola
Jermaine Jenas
Can I make the point that those personnel who give you advantage attacking set piece delivery are usually the same people who defend them.
And by practising attacking them we are also practising defending them...
And the better your attacking delivery the better the defense against the same will become.
And by practising attacking them we are also practising defending them...
And the better your attacking delivery the better the defense against the same will become.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I'm sure that we already do both
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Bingo.
Same goes for every other club.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
So - are we in crisis? I think four wins in our first 6 games is Poch's best start in any season since he joined us. Or am I wrong?
But, but ....we are still not playing at all well. Brighton played into our hands in the first half by standing off us and letting us play. Even then we looked AVB-esque. Lots of possession and no threat. Fortunately, we were gifted a penalty to start the scoring. That got me thinking how fortunate we have been with key goals this season. Most of the key first goals (or game changers) have come from set pieces or deflections or own goals - for example:
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - opening goal from Verts came from a corner (and was scored thanks to goal-line technology)
Fulham - key goal from Trippier came from a free kick at a time we had lost the initiative it restored our lead.
Man U - first goal from a corner from Kane's head
Watford - first goal was a gift of an own goal from a Watford player
Pool - our goal was by Lamela from a corner
Inter - our goal was from a wicked deflection after a tame Eriksen effort
Brighton - our first goal was a penalty by Kane following a needless handball in the wall from Trippier's free kick
Conclusion. Virtually all our key goals this season have come from dead balls or had a large dollop of luck attached to them. We aren't scoring nearly enough of the key first goals from our own good outfield play. We really must start to improve our output from outfield play if we want to achieve anything this season. We need to get back to basics. High pressing in the opponents half to force them into mistakes. We can't continue to rely on this source dead ball source of good fortune (however welcome it might be) for the entire season.
If just goes to underline the point I have been making for yonks - dead balls are very very important. I hate to think where we would be without having scored from them this season.
PS similarly a lot of our concessions this season have also been headers from set pieces. We need to fix this asap.
But, but ....we are still not playing at all well. Brighton played into our hands in the first half by standing off us and letting us play. Even then we looked AVB-esque. Lots of possession and no threat. Fortunately, we were gifted a penalty to start the scoring. That got me thinking how fortunate we have been with key goals this season. Most of the key first goals (or game changers) have come from set pieces or deflections or own goals - for example:
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - opening goal from Verts came from a corner (and was scored thanks to goal-line technology)
Fulham - key goal from Trippier came from a free kick at a time we had lost the initiative it restored our lead.
Man U - first goal from a corner from Kane's head
Watford - first goal was a gift of an own goal from a Watford player
Pool - our goal was by Lamela from a corner
Inter - our goal was from a wicked deflection after a tame Eriksen effort
Brighton - our first goal was a penalty by Kane following a needless handball in the wall from Trippier's free kick
Conclusion. Virtually all our key goals this season have come from dead balls or had a large dollop of luck attached to them. We aren't scoring nearly enough of the key first goals from our own good outfield play. We really must start to improve our output from outfield play if we want to achieve anything this season. We need to get back to basics. High pressing in the opponents half to force them into mistakes. We can't continue to rely on this source dead ball source of good fortune (however welcome it might be) for the entire season.
If just goes to underline the point I have been making for yonks - dead balls are very very important. I hate to think where we would be without having scored from them this season.
PS similarly a lot of our concessions this season have also been headers from set pieces. We need to fix this asap.