Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Sanchez, Ramsey and Walcott are key players I would say. Sanchez is their best player.
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Serious relegation fears
- Thread starter NaijaSpurs
- Start date
Sanchez, Ramsey and Walcott are key players I would say. Sanchez is their best player.
It's a perfectly reasonable/accurate comparison - Dortmund getting knocked out early by whoever won and it being considered a good campaign is no different to us getting knocked out early to say City or Chelsea and saying we had a good campaign - truth is in both instance neither club got going.
A club of Dortmunds standing should have been challenging for the CL more than one season for him to be considered proven in Europe, after all he had a better team than Bayern twice and several times was 2nd best side in a top 3 European league. as Jord pointed out a one off final, or victory even, can be achieved by anyone if the stars align.
As for Wenger his European record is poor - 20 odd years in the competition and they limp out any time they come out against a good side
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
He was last season I agree and so was Ramsey - could be because they have like for like replacements and those three all play in the same positions roughly. Ozil has comfortably steeped into Sanchezs shoes for example
They have had injuries in areas where they have proven like for like cover hence why they haven't missed them IMO. They can't play Ramsey, Ozil, Walcott, Sanchez, Cazorla, Ox and the Costa Rican lad all at the same time can they???
Well they can if they want no defence
Their biggest lost so far is Coquelin and he really is a player they should have upgraded on and brought cover for at least
He's not proven in Europe (the point in hand). Pretty much everyone in football's agreed on that score.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I don't think it's irrelevant.
We currently find ourselves a bit ahead of our expectations (imo at least). Although expectations change as the season progresses I think it's smart to be mindful of what our expectations were at the start of the season.
Put differently, if we had another 2 points from 8 games start to the season, but Poch managed to turn it around... Our expectations would change from "top 4" to "mid table" perhaps. But we would still remember our initial expectations, even if we managed an impressive second half of the season turnaround. Similarly I think it's now important to remember that the only reason we're in a situation where we can even talk about a title challenge in quiet whispers is that Pochettino has already exceeded our expectations.
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
No, we are in kind of a title challenge because we have played over half a season and we are only 6 points off, despite having got fewer points than we deserve. And it's obvious that the team has potential to have an even better second half of the season, and no other team, apart from arsenal, have show any sort of consistency.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
So we're not exceeding expectations in your opinion?
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
It's a perfectly reasonable/accurate comparison - Dortmund getting knocked out early by whoever won and it being considered a good campaign is no different to us getting knocked out early to say City or Chelsea and saying we had a good campaign - truth is in both instance neither club got going.
A club of Dortmunds standing should have been challenging for the CL more than one season for him to be considered proven in Europe, after all he had a better team than Bayern twice and several times was 2nd best side in a top 3 European league. as Jord pointed out a one off final, or victory even, can be achieved by anyone if the stars align.
As for Wenger his European record is poor - 20 odd years in the competition and they limp out any time they come out against a good side
I think people just assume because Dortmund finished above Bayern that they had a better squad. Don't get me wrong, they had an outstanding side, but if Arsenal win the league this season, it doesn't mean they have a better squad than City or Chelsea. Dortmund don't have the financial muscle of the real big European clubs. Expecting them to challenge every season was pushing it, even if they did underachieve in a couple of seasons.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I worry we will tire second half of the season and fall away badly.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
If you consider the sheer number of injuries they have had also, it's a joke (a funny joke albeit) how many injuries they rack up. City lose one player and they fall apart.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Me too, but some on here have given me more hope than i had at the start of the season that this wont happen using our gameplay this season as reference...
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
Not really. We haven't got that many more points this year compared to last year. I did expect some progress, which we have. A fair bit more resilient than expected, but we still have dropped some unnecessary points. The Team plays better than expected, but points wise it's about were I expected us to be. But because of this crazy season, we are one or two places better off than under normal circumstances, and fewer points off the top.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
But they always have someone to come in conveniently. The only time Arsenal have truly been weakened was when they and tompkay Chambers at centre back for a game or two. Dont get me wrong losing a player of they quality of Sanchez has an impact but not much if his replacement is Walcott for example. Arsenal main injuries have been in the area where they have the most players probably of any side in the league
City really don't have the squad people think despite the cash they have spent
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
Tbf city have had kompany, silva and aguero missing for a large portion of the season, that's 3 out of their 4 best players, I think any team would miss that. Take ozil, Sanchez and I don't know, giroud or Cech (?) out of the Arsenal side at the same time and they'd prob struggle more than having 7 or 8 first team / squad players missing.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
If I remember correctly the discussion was whether Klopp was a good coach; one that could transform Liverpool into a side that would challenge for top-4 or even the title at some point. Given what he did at Dortmund, one could argue there's a good chance. Not sure why his record in Europe came up, but given the resources he had and the players he was losing every season, I'd say he didn't do too shabby there either. Name one side in the last 5-10 years at the level of resources of BVB that has made it consistently to the final? Now if he was the manager of Bayern and all he had to show in 6 years was a final and a QF, then I would accept your point. In any case, as I said in a previous post, let's see what he does in the PL before we jump on him and label him average.
It's a perfectly reasonable/accurate comparison - Dortmund getting knocked out early by whoever won and it being considered a good campaign is no different to us getting knocked out early to say City or Chelsea and saying we had a good campaign - truth is in both instance neither club got going.
A club of Dortmunds standing should have been challenging for the CL more than one season for him to be considered proven in Europe, after all he had a better team than Bayern twice and several times was 2nd best side in a top 3 European league. as Jord pointed out a one off final, or victory even, can be achieved by anyone if the stars align.
As for Wenger his European record is poor - 20 odd years in the competition and they limp out any time they come out against a good side
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
This year they have been off in that regard, that much is true, but not by much.
That may have been the discussion that others were having - I simply joined in to question the idea that he was 'proven in Europe' - for me you need to prove something over a number of years (in European competition) for that to be the case, which I don't think is with Klopp. It's pretty simple really, I'm not sure why it's been met with such opposition
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Because we don't agree.That may have been the discussion that others were having - I simply joined in to question the idea that he was 'proven in Europe' - for me you need to prove something over a number of years (in European competition) for that to be the case, which I don't think is with Klopp. It's pretty simple really, I'm not sure why it's been met with such opposition
So what has Klopp proven in Europe then, in your opinion?Because we don't agree.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
4 more points half way through the season compared to last year, while (in your opinion) not picking up as many points as our performances have deserved. Over a full season that would leave us 8 points ahead on last season. I definitely think that's a solid improvement. If not overachieving, most definitely at the high end of what one could reasonably expect.
Part of why this season is crazy is that a lot of the mid table and smaller teams are getting better. The financial situation is working as an equalizer of sorts I think. Makes our improvement all the more impressive.
I wouldn't ever have expected us to get to the half way point of the season without "dropping some unnecessary points". This is a part of football unless we get to the ridiculous extremes.