Yeah, definitely not an either or situation. Quite the opposite.
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Saido Berahino
- Thread starter Superhudd
- Start date
Taking a step back and thinking about this, I still have a very hard time imagining West Brom selling him for anything less than 25 million pounds. It's just not worth it to them. They need to survive to assure themselves that 2016-2017 EPL TV money, which is going to be 100+ million pounds, so keeping Berahino for another year and selling him on for a little less than what they'd get from us now would make more sense to me than selling him to us at 15 million and buying Rondon with no EPL experience as his replacement. Pulis isn't afraid to spend and West Brom did engage in about 17 million pounds net spending, so they could buy Rondon, sell Ideye, and probably be around that mark again with a much better, deeper squad. Now, if you start talking about an offer in the 25-30 million pound range, where you can hedge your bets a bet financially, then it probably makes sense to sell.
I think if we're not prepared to go above 15 million, it'll be a very difficult deal to do, unless Berahino really agitates for the move (all indications from Pulis are he's be very professional thus far). I like Berahino though, especially for his shooting ability with his right foot, which is an asset against teams that park the bus.
I think if we're not prepared to go above 15 million, it'll be a very difficult deal to do, unless Berahino really agitates for the move (all indications from Pulis are he's be very professional thus far). I like Berahino though, especially for his shooting ability with his right foot, which is an asset against teams that park the bus.
It would be a wet-dream!
.......N'Jie..........Kane.......Berahino
......................Eriksen
............Bentaleb....Dier/new DM
Lots of pace and goals in that team.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
It's possible that we're looking at 15 million plus a make-weight of some sort (Lennon, perhaps Fazio if Poch isn't sold on him and Pulis fancies him). That would likely be far more tempting to West Brom: a lot of money for a player already (theoretically) replaced by another one, and another player to fill a hole in the side for free on top of that money.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
I don't think you have an agenda! Personally speaking, my frustration with the criticism of the board, Levy, Baldini etc.... is that I don't quite know what the expectation is. Unfortunately imho it is not a level playing field out there and in this league alone, there are 5 clubs that can and regularly do outspend us. Then there are probably 6 or so clubs outside of the EPL that can also outspend us. The club are looking to buy players that will better us, and this quality does not come cheap and tend to not be beyond the radars of the other clubs. A lot of them are talent hording e.g. Chelsea.
Then you have the players themselves. What has typically been shown in the past is that talented youngsters would really like to sign for one of the bigger clubs in the champions league. Probably for the kudos of being in a CL team, but also because these teams pay a lot in wages. More than we do. So my take, and I stress that this is from what little I know, is that said players and their agents are holding out before committing to a club like ours in case they get a chance to join the gravy train. Until they realise that that is not going to happen, they will not commit as they hold the cards. We want them, they want us but only for as long as one of the bigger teams does not want them. This is why we lose the Modric's, Berbatov's, Bale's, Carrick's etc... of this world.
I get frustrated with the criticism because it's delivered in such a sensationalist way. The board are abysmal/shambles/waste of space/penny pinching etc.... We must realise that we cannot compete with those bigger clubs, players want to play for those bigger clubs and therefore we will miss out on targets more than we will suceed in bringing them. We do quite well, imho, pound for pound in the transfer market.
If people are expecting us to go out and spend £20m plus net then I don't know what to say except your expectations are all wrong. We just won't. More than likely, I won't ever be able to afford a Bugatti Veyron or an Aston Martin. No point in me bitching about it and saying how unfair it is.
The key in all of this is that there are people who feel frustrated that a privately owned company is not being run in the way that they would like. Speculate to accumulate. Just how many clubs have actually done that in our position? None. Man United and Arsenal have been in the CL for ages and they have just got richer and richer. Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project are the teams that have challenged and won the race to be in the top 4 by having owners who had the cash to literally outspend everyone twice over. That just won't happen to us.
I would be frustrated with the running of the club if I could not see that there is a serious effort on their part to compete. They've not thrown in the towel and instead are looking to bridge the gap through having an amazing training complex that will rival any of the CL teams and a stadium that will do likewise. They are looking all the time at bridging the financial gap that we have as they know that this is the only way that we will compete. I agree with this and so I can understand why we will miss out on targets. The day I feel that the people that run this club are not looking to take this club forward is the day that I will criticise them heavily. Until then, I will recognise their mistakes but offer them some space as I can see progress in other areas.
That's just my tuppence. I don't think of myself as better than any other fan. As frustrated as some get, I will always read and appreciate another's point of view. That doesn't mean that I cannot put forward another point of view and let them see what I am seeing through my eyes. It's not belittling, it's not condascending and I hope that it is not rude!
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
I
indianspur
Guest
According to a report from the Daily Star, West Bromwich Albion manager Tony Pulis is considering a move for Tottenham Hotspur defender Federico Fazio.
The 28-year-old has a contract at White Hart Lane until the summer of 2018 but with Toby Alderweireld and Kevin Wimmer both arriving this summer Fazio may struggle for sufficient game-time.
Alderweireld and countryman Jan Vertonghen are likely to be the first-choice centre-back pairing when fit and available and with Wimmer and Eric Dier also on Tottenham’s books a bid for Fazio could tempt them into business.
The Argentine has divided opinion among Tottenham fans since he arrived in North London, and his 31 appearances last season contained a mixture of promising performances and disappointing contributions.
He certainly has the talent to succeed in the Premier League and West Brom could offer him the perfect chance to do just that either on loan or in a permanent deal, but it remains to be seen if Tottenham boss Mauricio Pochettino would sanction a move given the sheer number of games his side are likely to play this season.
West Brom are reportedly ready to sell Jonas Olsson and see Fazio as a good option to replace him at The Hawthorns.
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/08/0...y-considering-a-move-for-tottenhams-federico/
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
@Gazzasrightboot: Just to be clear, I don't agree with a lot of that, but I'm giving you a like because I admire the way you put it down and because I can understand where you're coming from.
They key differences between you and me stem from this paragraph...
Again (not aimed at you by any means, but at irritating posters like parklane1)....my position has never been a maximalist one when it comes to the owners. I've never considered them outright bad, or completely devoid of positives. I give them credit for the infrastructure they've built and are building, and generally credit them for taking the club up from lower mid-table to the 5th-8th place they've kept us at for about a decade now. I don't like that they haven't put very much of their own money into the football club they own (even when they clearly are capable of doing so), and generally am not impressed by the sky-high ticket prices they charge, far out of proportion to our status as a club...but I can generally credit them for being competent stewards for much of their tenure here, again, even if they mainly just rode the wave that surged the entire PL to the top of the 'value' chart). Where we disagree is in the bit about 'progress': while you see progress being made and appreciate it, I see missed opportunities and even greater progress spurned in favour of the most-risk free route to possible long, long, long term success. I've peaceably reconciled myself to the fact that our owners won't spend money on the footballing side of the club: we are their investment, nothing more, and as long as the club's value increases (which is generally taken care of by the PL's concurrent rise and infrastructure development conducted with the club's own money), they're content, as their expected profit when they sell (now inching past the one billion pound mark) will only increase. Footballing success isn't a priority, more of a nice bonus to have. But I think that approach to running the club has seen us spurn so many opportunities where a risk taken (with the club's own money) would have seen us perhaps extend the peak we enjoyed between 2009 and 2012, when a smart risk taken to back the managers the club employs would have seen our stars stay for perhaps another season, when the glass ceiling could have been broken with just a bit more from a club already generating profits year on year and run in the most stable manner possible.
You see progress, and applaud it: and by all means, that's okay. I see missed opportunities, and chances to sit at the top table spurned because of the absolutely hesitant, cautious, risk free manner that we operate in. And then it subsequently annoys me that posters (again, not you) rush to warn of the danger of 'doing a Leeds' when other people suggest that we could have done more in certain critical times (by no means Abramovich-style spending) to seize those opportunities: we are the most tightly-run club in the Prem, and unravelling that is going to turn us into a Leeds? Buying Stambouli instead of Schneiderlin (a player who absolutely wanted to come, btw), Dembele instead of Moutinho, signing Saha, Nelsen et al, all this was done to avoid becoming a Leeds? When profits are being made year on year?
For me, that small difference is all that separates us: you perhaps see our progress up to fifth and our infrastructural progress as worth celebrating more than the missed opportunities are worth commiserating over, and I just see it the other way. Hardly a maximalist position, I'm sure you'd agree. And, perhaps I'll add that, for me, footballing success is what a football club's owners should pursue as a primary objective, not a bonus: and I feel we have sometimes lost sight of that.
As for your position on engaging with fans who think differently to you, it does you credit: I too try to remember that the people I'm arguing with want the same thing for the club as I ultimately do, i.e to live up to our motto and win the things we've been shorn of for far too long. We just disagree on the way to get there, and for me, that's fine: and you, braine, bill, jimmyb....you're all posters I thoroughly enjoy debating with, and I'm happy to call you fine Spurs supporters and my firm fellows in lilywhite colours, whatever our disagreements.
Some posters, however, think differently. To them, I feel, there's no fun in being a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur unless you can proclaim yourself 'better' than another fan, and chastise that fan for daring to think differently to you. Those people, I'm starting to loathe. And I can spot a few on this forum as well, I think: I hope those posters change their ways, and start looking at their fellow fans in a less condescending, sneering, outraged manner.
They key differences between you and me stem from this paragraph...
Again (not aimed at you by any means, but at irritating posters like parklane1)....my position has never been a maximalist one when it comes to the owners. I've never considered them outright bad, or completely devoid of positives. I give them credit for the infrastructure they've built and are building, and generally credit them for taking the club up from lower mid-table to the 5th-8th place they've kept us at for about a decade now. I don't like that they haven't put very much of their own money into the football club they own (even when they clearly are capable of doing so), and generally am not impressed by the sky-high ticket prices they charge, far out of proportion to our status as a club...but I can generally credit them for being competent stewards for much of their tenure here, again, even if they mainly just rode the wave that surged the entire PL to the top of the 'value' chart). Where we disagree is in the bit about 'progress': while you see progress being made and appreciate it, I see missed opportunities and even greater progress spurned in favour of the most-risk free route to possible long, long, long term success. I've peaceably reconciled myself to the fact that our owners won't spend money on the footballing side of the club: we are their investment, nothing more, and as long as the club's value increases (which is generally taken care of by the PL's concurrent rise and infrastructure development conducted with the club's own money), they're content, as their expected profit when they sell (now inching past the one billion pound mark) will only increase. Footballing success isn't a priority, more of a nice bonus to have. But I think that approach to running the club has seen us spurn so many opportunities where a risk taken (with the club's own money) would have seen us perhaps extend the peak we enjoyed between 2009 and 2012, when a smart risk taken to back the managers the club employs would have seen our stars stay for perhaps another season, when the glass ceiling could have been broken with just a bit more from a club already generating profits year on year and run in the most stable manner possible.
You see progress, and applaud it: and by all means, that's okay. I see missed opportunities, and chances to sit at the top table spurned because of the absolutely hesitant, cautious, risk free manner that we operate in. And then it subsequently annoys me that posters (again, not you) rush to warn of the danger of 'doing a Leeds' when other people suggest that we could have done more in certain critical times (by no means Abramovich-style spending) to seize those opportunities: we are the most tightly-run club in the Prem, and unravelling that is going to turn us into a Leeds? Buying Stambouli instead of Schneiderlin (a player who absolutely wanted to come, btw), Dembele instead of Moutinho, signing Saha, Nelsen et al, all this was done to avoid becoming a Leeds? When profits are being made year on year?
For me, that small difference is all that separates us: you perhaps see our progress up to fifth and our infrastructural progress as worth celebrating more than the missed opportunities are worth commiserating over, and I just see it the other way. Hardly a maximalist position, I'm sure you'd agree. And, perhaps I'll add that, for me, footballing success is what a football club's owners should pursue as a primary objective, not a bonus: and I feel we have sometimes lost sight of that.
As for your position on engaging with fans who think differently to you, it does you credit: I too try to remember that the people I'm arguing with want the same thing for the club as I ultimately do, i.e to live up to our motto and win the things we've been shorn of for far too long. We just disagree on the way to get there, and for me, that's fine: and you, braine, bill, jimmyb....you're all posters I thoroughly enjoy debating with, and I'm happy to call you fine Spurs supporters and my firm fellows in lilywhite colours, whatever our disagreements.
Some posters, however, think differently. To them, I feel, there's no fun in being a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur unless you can proclaim yourself 'better' than another fan, and chastise that fan for daring to think differently to you. Those people, I'm starting to loathe. And I can spot a few on this forum as well, I think: I hope those posters change their ways, and start looking at their fellow fans in a less condescending, sneering, outraged manner.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
Thanks Dubai for taking the time to put down your thoughts and I understand where you are coming from. I do disagree with you though!!
We and victims have been the only clubs to really challenge the top 4. victims are doing it with a much bigger turnover than us and have been less successful I would argue. They also had the benefit of a number of years in the CL before Emirates Marketing Project came to the party. In my mind we have been the only credible and sustained challenge to that elite. The fact that is where we are aiming, and we are getting there is enough for me. My guess is that the owners will feel that we can go further, as they would have sold out by now. The only way they will get more value than now is if they are able to break into that top 4. Having dealt with a number of investment companies in my line of work, that's my view. Let's hope we get there in a sustainable way, and in 4-5 years time we are arguing over whether our latest £30m signing is going to win us the league or not!
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Well, like I said, our owners bought us for an up-front fee just short of 40 million quid. They're now quoting north of a billion pounds a decade and a half later, and that's not even accounting for the future assets and revenue s.treams the club will accrue over the next decade or so. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more profitable investment than that, whatever our fate on the football pitch . And I suspect that, even at a billion, we're not being overvalued: our status, our location in London and the PL's growth over the past decade make that a fair price. A price which will only increase once the stadium comes online.
Personally, I think they'll sell after a couple of seasons (and NFL games) in the new stadium. Interest will have firmed up by then,probably from the States (judging by the direction we're aiming for). And when that happens, and we at last get a new owner....I'd like, if I can, to go up to Daniel Levy, shake his hand, thank him for his services to the club, and invite him over for a drink. Over that drink, of course, I'd probably berate him for taking so long to get us to where we'll be then....but the gesture's what counts.
Edit: and by the way, @Gazzasrightboot , I'm really starting to like you as a poster. If I may say so, you have that @Nigeyman vibe about you, and I do enjoy reading Nige's posts (even though there's no Bale for us to crack jokes over anymore ).
. And I suspect that, even at a billion, we're not being overvalued: our status, our location in London and the PL's growth over the past decade make that a fair price. A price which will only increase once the stadium comes online.Personally, I think they'll sell after a couple of seasons (and NFL games) in the new stadium. Interest will have firmed up by then,probably from the States (judging by the direction we're aiming for). And when that happens, and we at last get a new owner....I'd like, if I can, to go up to Daniel Levy, shake his hand, thank him for his services to the club, and invite him over for a drink. Over that drink, of course, I'd probably berate him for taking so long to get us to where we'll be then....but the gesture's what counts.
Edit: and by the way, @Gazzasrightboot , I'm really starting to like you as a poster. If I may say so, you have that @Nigeyman vibe about you, and I do enjoy reading Nige's posts (even though there's no Bale for us to crack jokes over anymore
).
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
Well, like I said, our owners bought us for an up-front fee just short of 40 million quid. They're now quoting north of a billion pounds a decade and a half later, and that's not even accounting for the future assets and revenue s.treams the club will accrue over the next decade or so. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more profitable investment than that, whatever our fate on the football pitch
Personally, I think they'll sell after a couple of seasons (and NFL games) in the new stadium. Interest will have firmed up by then,probably from the States (judging by the direction we're aiming for). And when that happens, and we at last get a new owner....I'd like, if I can, to go up to Daniel Levy, shake his hand, thank him for his services to the club, and invite him over for a drink. Over that drink, of course, I'd probably berate him for taking so long to get us to where we'll be then....but the gesture's what counts.
I think you are right, and if you do manage to persuade him to have a drink please record the conversation!!
In my view Pochettino has been playing 4-2-3-1 out of necessity rather than choice. He played 2 up top with Espanyol and Southampton. Sometimes 3 upfront.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
Yeah , let's all calm down guys , we're all Spurs.
At the end of the day, surely we can all agree, it would've been so much better if Joe Lewis were a diehard Spurs fan, who was happy to drop a couple of hundred million of his own money, over the fifteen years he's been in charge so as to realise his dream of us winning the big pots?
At the end of the day, surely we can all agree, it would've been so much better if Joe Lewis were a diehard Spurs fan, who was happy to drop a couple of hundred million of his own money, over the fifteen years he's been in charge so as to realise his dream of us winning the big pots?
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
But he isn't but he is still miles ahead of Irving Scholar and the ultimate nightmare that could have been, Robert Maxwell, and we probably wouldn't have missed the Sky boat so badly with Levy as we did with Sugar.
So all in all when you add 30 years of perspective we are in fairly bloody good shape.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Great post mate and sums it up spot on especially this.
I get frustrated with the criticism because it's delivered in such a sensationalist way. The board are abysmal/shambles/waste of space/penny pinching etc....
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
Yes I agree with you and that's why I'm not over busying myself in my criticisms of our leadership, I'm actually okay with our lot. But I do sometimes think it's a shame Lewis is not a fan, as I do believe a few seasons back we could have gone for the PL title had he been willing to speculate with some investment.