Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Apparently he's played more than 2/3rds of games this season at LB.
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Ryan Sessegnon
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
Apparently he's played more than 2/3rds of games this season at LB.
Not saying your rationale is wrong, but young players rarely think so methodically - They hear the name and the fame of Man Utd and like it or not that is a bigger pull than we ever will be. Add onto that any agent will be pushing their player for a move to Man Utd and it really does make it unlikely. But if you really believe such a player would pick Spurs ahead of Man U then good luck to you....
Alternatively from the agents perspective a step up to a club on our level brings a decent pay day for him now, probably the same as what he'd get by moving straight to United (in terms of agent fees) and then several years down the line once the player has reached his peak a much bigger payday could be on the horizon as buying from us will generate much more money than buying from Fulham...
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Puts me in mind of Dier. Having the versatility to move a player around the pitch and completely change tactics/formations without the use of subs.
From that perspective its a very Poch sort of move.
I dont think you can suppose how rational or not a player is and just assume their motives.
If we are hypothetically looking at a situation, we can only really be pragmatic about it. And pragmatism says go to Spurs, make your name, get a dream move and career from there. Not go to Utd, see your career stalled, and perhaps never recover or reach your full potential.
And, as Billy says, if you want to play the agent card - then I still think Spurs are the move. Get the move, get the %, maybe in a year or so get a new contract (something else we make a point of doing), and then in another year get a huge mega bucks move.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Some players would, some players wouldn't. I think we've done enough to at least be in with a good chance in a situation like that. That's big for us.
In a way it's a self selecting process that works somewhat in our favour. Those that choose us do so for more of the right reasons. With the attitude to develop, make smart choices about their careers and work hard under a manager like Pochettino. That's the kind of player we want to attract.
Right so if you asked the majority of teenage footballers whether they'd rather sign for Man Utd or Spurs you really think the majority would say Spurs?! Dear lord, this is another of the classic biased Spurs opinions on here.
You do realise not every young player's career at Man U has stalled? Those good enough get game time - unlike us the youngsters are bedded in rather than playing every week because they already have the quality established players unlike us. See Lindgard, bit part player and has developed and now a fixture in the side, Martial the same, Bailly until his injury was a fixture, Rashford is in and out but will get there if he really is the real deal. Yes we have improved our ability to compete for these players, but we are no way a more attractive option than Man U because of a couple of top 4 finishes and Poch developing a few young players - hes also farmed out plenty of young players so lets not make out we are some holy grail....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
If anything, its another classic ANTI-spurs bias on your part.
Ask Luke Shaw how his career is going. Ask Zaha how much his career was set back. Speak to Lukaku, Schurrle and De Bruyne about Mourinhos handling of youth.
The list is extensive. Mourinho is brick with young players, despite Lingard doing well enough right now. Im really not sure how anyone can argue with that.
If you are a young player, you know a few things. Its a short career. You need to play to improve. You need to be coached to improve. You dont get moves to big clubs where you can be a star unless you earn it. Its rare for a young player to walk into top clubs team.
How many of those boxes does Utd and Mourinho tick?
And what are the chances of us ticking more?
Even pre Poch, Keane, Bale, Modric, Berbatov... All got dream moves after doing well with us. Since Poch, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Son, Alli, Wanyama, others - all will be on the radar of top level clubs if they were to leave (Walker already has). We are a farm for quality players, who almost all get moves they deserve at times in their careers when they can really make the most of them.
If I were a young player, no doubt in my mind - Id go to Spurs. Id play. Id improve. And I would get a huge deal in the future when Real Madrid want to sign me.
And thats nothing to do with bias.
Yet despite this lovely list of reasons why a player should join us ahead of United young players continue to make this apparent awful mistake of picking United and other big clubs ahead of the likes of us. I wonder why that is. Couldnt be anything to do with the history/size of the club and the wages they'd get at joining one of the biggest clubs in the world could it....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Yes, some footballers are stupid, and just follow the money. Same as it ever was.
If I had stated that all young players will absolutely join us over Utd you might have a point. I didnt though, did I? I said any with any sense would.
I defended the position that we are in that conversation when young players are available, for good reason - it is not a given that they will just opt for Utd. And have provided a fairly obvious and straight forward set of reasons why.
You choose to dismiss it, thats up to you.
And even more so and naive when they are young.
Of course nothing is a given, but the debate was about whether a young player would rather go to us or Man U and I wouldnt say its unreasonable that 80-90% would pick Man Utd still. I already said your reasons are ones I agree with why a player could/should pick us, but they aren't big enough reasons to negate the name of Man Utd, the wages they would offer a young player etc etc
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
80-90% is a number that you've picked out of thin air, my argument is that it is too high.
I think players are getting a bit smarter in playing the career game, and all evidence suggests that most players careers suffer for going to big clubs too soon.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see it. Just as it doesnt take one to see we offer a real platform for meaningful development and opportunity later on.
Look at Sanchez, chose Ajax over Barca because he knew it would serve his career better. He knew he would go there and play. That got him a move to us, where he takes a step up again. If he moves to Barca in a year or two it will be as a first team regular, having developed and matured.
If he went last year he would currently be stuck in the B team. Then he might get a loan to Sociedad or somewhere. THen they will sell him with a buy back clause, and maybe one day they take that option, maybe they dont.
Just one example, but one I think is relevant and (hopefully) indicative of a shift in players thoughts on these moves.
I think players are getting a bit smarter in playing the career game, and all evidence suggests that most players careers suffer for going to big clubs too soon.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see it. Just as it doesnt take one to see we offer a real platform for meaningful development and opportunity later on.
Look at Sanchez, chose Ajax over Barca because he knew it would serve his career better. He knew he would go there and play. That got him a move to us, where he takes a step up again. If he moves to Barca in a year or two it will be as a first team regular, having developed and matured.
If he went last year he would currently be stuck in the B team. Then he might get a loan to Sociedad or somewhere. THen they will sell him with a buy back clause, and maybe one day they take that option, maybe they dont.
Just one example, but one I think is relevant and (hopefully) indicative of a shift in players thoughts on these moves.
greatwhitenorf
Edgar Davids
What about the preference of most of humanity to prefer living in the splendour of London over wet, dark, rat-infested Manchester?
StephenH
David Ginola
I liked living in Wilmslow back in the day!
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Most live in leafy cheshire not moss side.
milo
Jack L. Jones
And chose us over Barca again last summer. Mourinho targeted Dier last summer but he stayed with us without any fuss.
I can't think of the last time that United and us were both in for the same young player, so @harr1984's 80-90% figure is difficult to quantify in any meaningful way. What we can say with some confidence is that we are an attractive club for a young player to join and some choose us over richer clubs.
Yeah fair enough it’s a number I’ve plucked out of the air, but my point is it will be the vast majority. Yes we are all well aware of Sanchez,but the amount of players we are in for and don’t get are far greater than those we do acquire no? So I don’t see how that represents a ‘shift’ at all....
How do you know Dier has stayed without any fuss? His form has been poor since this apparent interest so who’s to say there isn’t more to it?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Do we not? How many do we know we miss out on for sure?
So far as I can see we have signed more players than missed out on, even in the face of competition.
"Vast Majority" is still the same as plucking "90%" out of the air. I disagree, obviously. But lets be honest, its not quantifiable either way, so would you agree there is little point batting it back and forth?
I think you are wrong, you think the same of me. I can live with that.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Interesting. I would be surprised if any more than 10% of young footballers would take your viewpoint. My father was an agent for a while a number of years ago. The number 1 factor for 90%+ of players is how much money they will earn. Remember that a move to Man Utd will also generate larger personal commercial deals as well as a bigger pay packet.