Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
Mate, you were literally commenting on Bakayoko....
Sometimes you just need to say 'sorry, I think I got it wrong initially'.
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Rough highlights of Prem teams' transfer windows
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Sometimes you just need to say 'sorry, I think I got it wrong initially'.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
We can dress it up how we want but they have signed a bunch of players that (on paper at least) look to be improvements to their current first team incumbant. Any team that strengthens their first team so that current first team players become reserves have done well.
Of course that is easier to do for a club finishing outside the European places than it is for a club in the European places but surely we're not above saying that West Ham have had a good window so far and would seem likely to do better this season than they did last season.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Not really. I don’t think I’m wrong. When I’ve seen him play he hasn’t done anything. Some people rate him though. Hell he rated himself massively.
We will see where he ends up and what he does
If we sign him I’ll back him fully
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
I think they have had a great window
And it will solidify them as the best of the rest
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
He will be due the remaining installments on his signing on fee (loyalty bonus). Suspect West Ham don't want to pay him that seeing as he'll likely be earning higher (especially considering tax) salary at the new club but the player is still within his rights to try to get the rest of what he is owed by West Ham if he so chooses.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
You said that his statistics won't make the people at Spurs sit up and take notice.... When his statistics are right at the top end!
I suspect you said that without really knowing what his statistics were. @Lilbaz posting the player's stats showed you were very wrong.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
They have done well for West Ham and they are in a different place as others as we are also.
A 31 year old Striker though appears similar to the strokes they have pulled in previous seasons, thats not dressing up anything, thats just an opinion based on an observation.
As with anything we will see
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
No I saw his statistics
As I said … his stats weren’t as good in the creative end call Johnson’s. Then Lilbaz adding in the cups and Europe
Those stats are in the Dutch league
He may be mustard but he has only done it in a very weak league and I’d expect even better numbers TBH
His numbers at international level don’t stand out so far
If it’s a £20m gamble then there may be the upside worth gambling on
If it’s £40m I’d suggest we find a more guaranteed option
Kudos had the stats, did it in the CL and passed the eye test.
This guy doesn’t IMO
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
Here is Kudus in the Eredivisie the season before he went to West Ham (Kudus was aged 22 in this season)
Apologies for the long list of stats (I've bolded the ones where Kudus outperformed Bakayoko)
Goals: 0.55, 96th percentile
Assists: 0.15, 48th percentile
G+A: 0.70, 89th percentile
XG: 0.58, 99th percentile
xAG: 0.15 46th percentile
Progressive carries: 3.31, 66th percentile
Progressive passes: 3.26, 48th percentile
Progressive passes rec: 7.43, 63rd percentile
Shots: 3.46, 92nd percentile
Shots on target: 1.36, 92nd percentile
Shots on target %: 39.1%, 61st percentile
Goals/shot: 0.16, 78th percentile
Passes completed: 28.21, 67th percentile
Passes attempted: 32.98, 48th percentile
Pass completion: 85.5%, 98th percentile
Key passes: 1.46, 49th percentile
Passes into final third: 2.01, 57th percentile
Passes into penalty area: 0.95, 31st percentile
Crosses into penalty area: 0.15, 30th percentile
Shot creating actions: 3.41, 61st percentile
Goal creating actions: 0.40, 52nd percentile
Touches: 48.44, 58th percentile
Take ons attempted: 7.33, 98th percentile
Successful take ons: 4.57, 99th percentile
Successful take on %: 62.3%, 98th percentile
Carries: 35.09, 81st percentile
Total carry distance: 241.24, 81st percentile
Progressive carry distance: 103.7, 68th percentile
Miscontrols: 3.06, 22nd percentile
Dispossessed: 3.21, 1st percentile
Interceptions: 0.35, 23rd percentile
Tackles won: 0.95, 56th percentile
Ball recoveries: 5.42, 67th percentile
Ariels won: 0.5, 43rd percentile
% ariels won: 43.5%, 58th percentile.
Here are Bakayoko's stats in Eredivisie last season (Bakayoko was aged 20 at start of season, turning 21 the month before the season ended)
Again, apologies for the long list of stats and I've bolded those where Bakayoko outperformed Kudus
Goals: 0.33, 67th percentile
Assists: 0.33, 85th percentile
G+A: 0.66, 84th percentile
XG: 0.25, 67th percentile
xGA: 0.23, 77th percentile
Progressive carries: 6.69, 97th percentile
Progressive passes: 2.95, 34th percentile
Progressive passes rec: 15.73, 98th percentile
Shots: 2.95, 84th percentile
Shots on target: 1.25, 90th percentile
Shots on target %: 42.2%, 74th percentile
Goals/shot: 0.11, 55th percentile
Passes completed: 34.28, 89th percentile
Passes attempted: 44.18, 86th percentile
Pass completion: 77.6%, 79th percentile
Key passes: 1.7, 66th percentile
Passes into final third: 1.31, 30th percentile
Passes into penalty area: 2.29, 85th percentile
Crosses into penalty area: 0.72, 87th percentile
Shot creating actions: 4.85, 86th percentile
Goal creating actions: 0.85, 96th percentile
Touches: 58.8, 89th percentile
Take ons attempted: 4.98, 83rd percentile
Successful take ons: 2.95, 95th percentile
Successful take on %: 59.2%, 95th percentile
Carries: 38.81, 87th percentile
Total carry distance: 274.65, 91st percentile
Progressive carry distance: 169.71, 96th percentile
Miscontrols: 2.75, 38th percentile
Dispossessed: 1.77, 26th percentile
Interceptions: 0.52, 56th percentile
Tackles won: 1.31, 83rd percentile
Ball recoveries: 5.44, 68th percentile
Ariels won: 0.85, 63rd percentile
% ariels won: 48.1%, 77th percentile.
The two players actually compare reasonably closely in many aspects with both having some great stats. There is absolutely no way that any scouting department worth its salt wouldn't be following Bakayoko very closely with the numbers he posted last season.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
But he effectively relegates their 65 year old striker Antonio to the bench. So an improvement in age as well as quality.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
Didn't he leave Spurs at only 16 years old? (think he refused a pro deal at Spurs and signed at PSV aged 17?)
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
They will follow him
They should for sure
But would you gamble the fees being talked about?
As I said, you take stats and also do the eye test. For me… he didn’t pass the the eye test. He Amy we’ll be a guy who excels against poorer sides (I don’t know) or one that does it in streaks rather than spreads it out over a season… again I don’t know
I think it’s interesting that Brentford wanted him and haven’t followed up. Pool haven’t so far bitten respite being strongly linked
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Yep
Was a bloody good move for him
Also bakayoko is a fair bit younger.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
With less experience like for like at the same age
Guess Bakayoko will need that break out season that Kudos had at the same age and he will get his move unless someone gambles this summer
How has he got less experience at the same age? Do show.
Kudus was in his first season at ajax at the same age as bakayoko is now.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Played less senior games at the same age .. so less experience
Unless you’re gonna show something else?
I get you rate him, I don’t. I think he is a £20m gamble worth a risk. They want £40m plus. That’s the money pay for a player who has done more imo unless your 100% sure
Johnson had done something with a poor side in the prem
Kudos did it was Ajax in Europe
This would be Bergwein all over again IMO and why I don’t think we are after him. We haven’t been linked as far as I can tell
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
Would I pay £40m for Bakayoko? Yes I would. He has very few, if any, weaknesses and does lots of things well (some things extremely well). He also has a great build for premier league football and plays in a position that we seem to want to add a player in. Of all the wide players out there who we could feasibly sign he would be my top choice.
Note that if we don't have £40m to spend or don't think we could 'gamble' £40m on him then I'd happily see us signing Rowe from Norwich for about half that amount.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
Kudos is 2 years and 7 months older than Bakayoko. At the age that Bakayoko is now I think Kudus had played 33 games for Ajax. Bakayoko has played 60 games for PSV. Kudus had played 8 games in Europe versus Bakayoko's 16.
Though prior to going to Ajax Kudus had played 51 games for Nordsjaelland, whereas Bakayoko played 55 games for Yong PSV (Danish first division versus Dutch second division).
If comparing Kudus to Bakayoko then you also have to consider that Kudus will be away at the African Nations Cup every two years whereas Bakayoko plays for Belgium so doesn't have that same issue (will have something of an impact on transfer fee).
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
I’d argue his weakness is he hasn’t done it regularly yet enough for the fee
I fully buy into getting players on the way up because that means lower fees initially and it’s also a gamble
That’s why Drgusins fee was relatively low as you still buying potential
£40m for me has to have an element of oven ready and proven background
2/3 seasons at least I’d say even for a youngster
Of not Nusa for €20m would be a better gamble