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Ross Barkley

I'm hardly an Everton expert nor am I a Barkley booster. But the ex-pat father of a pal of my daughter (there's credibility for you) is a lifetime Evertonian with strong ties back home that run into that club's academy. He visits Goodison every August and December and gets prime seats. Our daughters laughingly carried messages back and forth between households, sustaining a long-time banter between us.

He has stoutly maintained that Barkley is desperate to get to Spurs. Wants to be in London, loves the idea of playing for Pochettino and with Kane and the England team players to help him get to the top level of the game. That's all I know but I believe it coming from an Everton pal who has no love of Spurs whatsoever.
 
Yeah it feels this is going to happen it's just a matter of when. Similar to Walker only being linked with City and eventually ending up there.

Barkley has made up his mind he wants to join Spurs and is just waiting for the clubs to sort out a deal

Even his people via " a source" quickly squashed talk that he wanted to come to Spurs as the highest paid player.
 
I just badly hope he's part of a swap deal with sissoko. Both players had below par seasons last season. Everton wanted sissoko last year. Could be.
 
billyiddo said:
The question is whether these young players are ready to fill the squad and play important roles in our season, that you would expect of a player in a tight 22 man squad - I don't think that's the case as explained by what I see as a huge drop off in quality and experience once you get past the first 15 or 16 players and as previously stated if we want to keep ourselves in and around the title race and challenge in the cups then we need more quality in the squad - Winks is the only young player Pochettino seemingly trusts atm to give proper match time to and when you consider the minutes given to the likes of Bentaleb Mason and a Townsend previously it would suggest to me that he knows that our current batch of young players aren't close to the required quality for a side in our position - at the moment. So our choice is either improve the situation by making signings, which we have looked to do every single summer Poch has been here or just rely on the players already here, which there is no precedent for.

Essentially our first team becoming so good has put us ahead of schedule and moved the goal posts - we're not a side hoping to scrape in to the top four anymore we're a side looking to challenge on all fronts and if we don't do that at a minimum then I can't see us keeping the likes of Alli Kane Alderweireld Eriksen etc happy whilst we can't financially compensate them.

Last season showed unless we give a competition our full focus with our best available team we aren't getting very far which equates to our squad not being good enough and if this first XI breaks up over the next couple of years with nothing to show for it it will be a crying shame
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My point isn't that Onomah, Edwards or CCV are ready for that kind of involvement at this point. More that Pochettino is very willing to make young players an important part of the squad when he thinks they're ready. And that seems to happen earlier under Poch than most other managers.

Second point being that we really have a limited basis for evaluating if a player is ready or not. Very few saw Alli, Dier or Winks stepping up in the way they did. Who Pochettino will trust going in to next season is difficult to guess from the outside. Us signing someone for a role a youngster might be expected to fill is a decent indication. Similarly not signing someone for a role is a decent indication. If Pochettino right now rates Onomah or CCV a ready to make the kind of impact Winks made last season how would you know?

Our squad not being strong enough past 15-16 players is not a result of Pochettino trusting young players. It's a result of transfers not working out. Including some fairly expensive signings. Our best 15-16 players being extremely good is in part a direct consequence of Pochettino trusting young players to the extent he does. Continuing this is vital to our continued success imo.
 
braineclipse said:
My point isn't that Onomah, Edwards or CCV are ready for that kind of involvement at this point. More that Pochettino is very willing to make young players an important part of the squad when he thinks they're ready. And that seems to happen earlier under Poch than most other managers.
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I wasn't at any point questioning whether Pochettino makes young players inportant parts of the squad if they are ready - we have seen with Mason Bentaleb Kane and Winks that he will do so - the point is we are now a stronger team than when he arrived so the bar is higher for younger players to reach the level required - hence why Onomah was getting minutes two years ago and playing away against Dortmund in Europe but has had precious little since.

Second point being that we really have a limited basis for evaluating if a player is ready or not. Very few saw Alli, Dier or Winks stepping up in the way they did. Who Pochettino will trust going in to next season is difficult to guess from the outside. Us signing someone for a role a youngster might be expected to fill is a decent indication. Similarly not signing someone for a role is a decent indication. If Pochettino right now rates Onomah or CCV a ready to make the kind of impact Winks made last season how would you know?
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I wouldn't know and similarly neither would you or anyone else - what I do know is that Onomah and CCV have been on the fringes for some time now, had limited levels of involvement and when they have been involved looked way off of the level required - sure they both could step it up a level next season to being good enough to improve our squad to that of the level we want to be (challenging on all fronts) but from what we have seen so far that would be a bit of a stretch to assume.

Our squad not being strong enough past 15-16 players is not a result of Pochettino trusting young players. It's a result of transfers not working out. Including some fairly expensive signings. Our best 15-16 players being extremely good is in part a direct consequence of Pochettino trusting young players to the extent he does. Continuing this is vital to our continued success imo.
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Our first 15/16 being strong is a direct result of us buying talented players with either experience or potential, only Kane is from the academy, a player who was getting first team minutes before Pochettino arrived and layer forced himself in to his plans by playing well in European fixtures. Winks also played well and earned minutes from cameos - as of yet the current academy grads are failing to stake a place in the team the same way either of those two did/are doing. Which again points to them being far too green to be a part of a tight 22 man squad for a side challenging at the top of the table and wanting to go deep in cup competitions.


Edit : misread that last part of your post... no i agree the weakness outside of the 15/16 is not down to the young players and as you say it is down to signings not working out but then does that not support the idea that the young players are there not on merit but because of a lack of quality?
 
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In a deal like this he will have agreed wages with whatever club before he made a decision to leave Everton.

Barkley isn't gonna make a huge push to leave and then find out he's only gonna get 50k at Spurs.

It would have been the same with Walker.

That's why a contract negotiation with one of your own players takes months but an incoming player signs his new contract the day after the clubs agree on a fee.
 
I'm I being daft here, but how is a player supposed to pass his medical if he's injured? The club will want to be sure there are no other underlying issues with the player right, but I'm assuming certain tests and examinations can't be done if he's out of action?
 
Ade's folks are ok really said:
I'm I being daft here, but how is a player supposed to pass his medical if he's injured? The club will want to be sure there are no other underlying issues with the player right, but I'm assuming certain tests and examinations can't be done if he's out of action?
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I always thought the medical was chiefly for insurance purposes, so was more about testing organ functions, joint conditions and blood etc., rather than a physical examination per se?
 
Gutter Boy said:
I always thought the medical was chiefly for insurance purposes, so was more about testing organ functions, joint conditions and blood etc., rather than a physical examination per se?
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Ive often wondered how injured players pass medicals so Im guessing youre right....
 
billyiddo said:
I wasn't at any point questioning whether Pochettino makes young players inportant parts of the squad if they are ready - we have seen with Mason Bentaleb Kane and Winks that he will do so - the point is we are now a stronger team than when he arrived so the bar is higher for younger players to reach the level required - hence why Onomah was getting minutes two years ago and playing away against Dortmund in Europe but has had precious little since.



I wouldn't know and similarly neither would you or anyone else - what I do know is that Onomah and CCV have been on the fringes for some time now, had limited levels of involvement and when they have been involved looked way off of the level required - sure they both could step it up a level next season to being good enough to improve our squad to that of the level we want to be (challenging on all fronts) but from what we have seen so far that would be a bit of a stretch to assume.



Our first 15/16 being strong is a direct result of us buying talented players with either experience or potential, only Kane is from the academy, a player who was getting first team minutes before Pochettino arrived and layer forced himself in to his plans by playing well in European fixtures. Winks also played well and earned minutes from cameos - as of yet the current academy grads are failing to stake a place in the team the same way either of those two did/are doing. Which again points to them being far too green to be a part of a tight 22 man squad for a side challenging at the top of the table and wanting to go deep in cup competitions.


Edit : misread that last part of your post... no i agree the weakness outside of the 15/16 is not down to the young players and as you say it is down to signings not working out but then does that not support the idea that the young players are there not on merit but because of a lack of quality?
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I would include Winks in that 15/16. Two academy players getting to that level, a very high level as you point out. Several others playing their part for a while before being sold for considerable amounts. Over 3 years that's a very good rate for me.

Buying players with potential is certainly part of it. Including several players signed before Pochettino. But particularly with the lower profile young players signed Pochettino's approach of making these players an important part of the squad has been significant in the success. I can very easily see players like Dier and Alli having much worse trajectory at other clubs under different managers with other approaches. Where they might not have gotten the same trust and squad roles.

You say Kane forced his way in. But would he have been able to that if Pochettino had done what many fans wanted and signed a new striker in his first summer? Undoubtedly many other managers would have done just that. Similar story with Winks. You might call it a lack of quality from other players. But from where I'm seeing this it's been a conscious choice to not sign more experienced players to leave the path open for these younger players. Including Alli and Dier. Again look at who we didn't sign, or which roles we didn't sign players for. The failed transfers haven't been in the positions where the youngsters have then succeeded, they've been for roles where we haven't had any young players breaking through.

Onomah and CCV are still very young. Particularly for their positions (assuming a deep midfield role for Onomah). Not sure what more should have been expected so far or how predictive their past performances are for their future performances.
 
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