Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

[MadSpurs]

Let's face it, if he'd spoken to the players people would just slate him for it. If he doesn't speak to the players then guess what? He'd get slated for it. Ultimately, if you're one of the people that have it in for him you are going to twist it in the direction that suits your narrative.

He should have spoken to his players in the dressing room after the game. That is what every top coach does, what did he think it gained him ignoring his team and then going to the journos to throw them under the bus?

Last week he spoke to one of his players straight after the 90 mins. He got lambasted for that.

Having a pop at a player in full view is not a very good idea.

I reckon they'll have a great chat about the game as a group at the first opportunity.

Back at training 100%, should have still spoken about it directly after the game though

They will talk about dominating Villa and I hope they talk about the Wan-Bissaka / Marmoush incident and remind the player that PGMOL have cheated us out of 3 points again.

Oh come on - the world is not against us. I see this narrative all over X, it's a viewpoint not to be taken seriously.

However, they will focus on what happened to the mindset of team when they went 2-0 down. There will be a couple of private conversations with individual players about switching off and making mistakes.

De Zerbi sets the mindset, if it's wrong it's all on him

Yesterday turned out a bad day at the office in the end. It shouldn't have been that way really.

Agree, it shouldn't yet it was... again

 

[billyiddo]

Let's face it, if he'd spoken to the players people would just slate him for it. If he doesn't speak to the players then guess what? He'd get slated for it. Ultimately, if you're one of the people that have it in for him you are going to twist it in the direction that suits your narrative.

Last week he spoke to one of his players straight after the 90 mins. He got lambasted for that.

I reckon they'll have a great chat about the game as a group at the first opportunity. They will talk about dominating Villa and I hope they talk about the Wan-Bissaka / Marmoush incident and remind the player that PGMOL have cheated us out of 3 points again. However, they will focus on what happened to the mindset of team when they went 2-0 down. There will be a couple of private conversations with individual players about switching off and making mistakes.

Yesterday turned out a bad day at the office in the end. It shouldn't have been that way really.

I don't think I've ever heard of a manager being criticised for speaking to his players after a loss

 

[Raziel]

I get that you're saying you're not particularly happy with the summer business but why would you resign Palhinha if you want to improve the passing game and chances created? He doesn't add that and we know this from what he is as a player and what we saw with our eyes last season.

I personally I would have kept Spence but not for the left hand side. We needed an actual LB and whether that was getting in Robertson or just trusting in Souza I don't mind but Spence should have this season only been available for the right hand side.

I get why we didn't sign a 10 as we have 3 of them already. Buying a 4th would have been questionable but then they actually did try and buy a 10 hybrid in Ndiaye so TBF you kind of can't criticise the lack of the additional 10 when we did almost get him.

I'm not actually, I'm saying a lot of choices that were made that either weren't absolutely necessary or questionable as if they upgraded the replaced player. Those decisions, regardless of if its "back the manager" or just change of guard will/should all be judged in time (right now, doesn't look so good)

I wouldn't have signed Palhinha to improve passing (just to answer that question), Kinsky, JPVH, Fernandes, Maddison (caveat, when fit) and Savinho have enough passing in them. I'd sign Palhinha for when a fight is needed (see Bretford game, or what Brighton just did to Arsenal).

I can criticise the lack of 10, because we fudged up with the Gakpo/Ndiaye play, at some point in time we needed to either get the man, or move on to another viable target, and no, Mudryk isn't a viable player, an academy player should be there is we had zero options.

 

[Raziel]

Let's face it, if he'd spoken to the players people would just slate him for it. If he doesn't speak to the players then guess what? He'd get slated for it. Ultimately, if you're one of the people that have it in for him you are going to twist it in the direction that suits your narrative.

Last week he spoke to one of his players straight after the 90 mins. He got lambasted for that.

I reckon they'll have a great chat about the game as a group at the first opportunity. They will talk about dominating Villa and I hope they talk about the Wan-Bissaka / Marmoush incident and remind the player that PGMOL have cheated us out of 3 points again. However, they will focus on what happened to the mindset of team when they went 2-0 down. There will be a couple of private conversations with individual players about switching off and making mistakes.

Yesterday turned out a bad day at the office in the end. It shouldn't have been that way really.

Problem is, it's the 50th bad day at the office in the last 141 days at the office.

And I 100% get that isn't all on RDZ, but, it cannot be allowed to continue, something has to change

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

He should have spoken to his players in the dressing room after the game. That is what every top coach does, what did he think it gained him ignoring his team and then going to the journos to throw them under the bus?


Having a pop at a player in full view is not a very good idea.


Back at training 100%, should have still spoken about it directly after the game though


Oh come on - the world is not against us. I see this narrative all over X, it's a viewpoint not to be taken seriously.


De Zerbi sets the mindset, if it's wrong it's all on him


Agree, it shouldn't yet it was... again

I can recall hearing multiple examples of coaches before international breaks not speaking to the players much or at all after the last game before they go. The reason is whatever message is given is lost, there are 3 weeks out now and most of those players will be flying off to their international commitments. Their minds will always be there.

How has he thrown them under the bus?

 

[Muttley]

Problem is, it's the 50th bad day at the office in the last 141 days at the office.

And I 100% get that isn't all on RDZ, but, it cannot be allowed to continue, something has to change

I'm all for electrifying the vests of the referees and every time they cheat the laws of the game I'll give the button a little squeeze. I'll soon get us a level playing field back.

 

[Mikey10]

I can recall hearing multiple examples of coaches before international breaks not speaking to the players much or at all after the last game before they go. The reason is whatever message is given is lost, there are 3 weeks out now and most of those players will be flying off to their international commitments. Their minds will always be there.

How has he thrown them under the bus?

Was listening to a podcast earlier which was saying it’s standard for a manager not to address the players before an international break for the reasons you give; and they also said that some managers never speak to players in the changing room post-match due to the atmosphere being too emotional for anything positive to be gained from doing it.

No idea if it’s true, but makes some sense.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Problem is, it's the 50th bad day at the office in the last 141 days at the office.

And I 100% get that isn't all on RDZ, but, it cannot be allowed to continue, something has to change

This is going to sound like I’m having a pop at our fans and I’m really not, but I do wonder if part of the issue, the lack of execution in key moments, is down to the nervousness that comes from the unease of our fans. Because you’re right that this has gone on too long, under multiple different managers, and other than RDZ being at the start of his cycle, this is the only thing I can think of as a consistent factor that applies across the entire timeframe we’re talking about.

And I’m really not sure what the answer is. I think the players have to be the ones to just try and block that out, to bring a calmness and a positivity to these moments, and do what they are more than capable of doing when it comes to it.

I just don’t know if another club has a fan base that is as self deprecating at ours. There are multiple shots on coverage of our games of fans looking depressed, hopeless, or even the wry smiles that we’ve actually scored a goal. Or the sarcastic applause when we had a shot on target. Our fans give off the impression that the club is just one step from hurting us badly again. We’re just waiting for the other shoe to drop, constantly.

We’ll sing, we’ll get behind the team. But there’s a latent nervousness that just seems to be a consistent thread through the years, especially recently. We’re not proud, not really. We’re not confident. We’re not sure it’s all going to work out eventually. And I do think that has some impact.

 

[Bishop]

I'm not actually, I'm saying a lot of choices that were made that either weren't absolutely necessary or questionable as if they upgraded the replaced player. Those decisions, regardless of if its "back the manager" or just change of guard will/should all be judged in time (right now, doesn't look so good)

I wouldn't have signed Palhinha to improve passing (just to answer that question), Kinsky, JPVH, Fernandes, Maddison (caveat, when fit) and Savinho have enough passing in them. I'd sign Palhinha for when a fight is needed (see Bretford game, or what Brighton just did to Arsenal).

I can criticise the lack of 10, because we fudged up with the Gakpo/Ndiaye play, at some point in time we needed to either get the man, or move on to another viable target, and no, Mudryk isn't a viable player, an academy player should be there is we had zero options.

With regards to Ndiaye we probably thought we had been slick and got a coup. When that deal fell through there wasn't really the time to get someone else in. I likewise wouldn't have bothered with Mudryrk, his signing makes little to no sense to me. He wasn't exactly firing before his suspension so to go for him after 2 years of inactivity shows me a level of desperation in that move.

 

[Gazza]

Just let the man manage, the results will come.

He’s showing so much already. We have had a fragile mindset since conte that almost got us relegated twice. He is building a team, and we just need a win and a few goals, so have no doubt we will be heading the right way up the table.

I am a little bemused at our striking situation but I hope that we can address this in January and keep going without chopping the management down at any bad result.

Talk about the players being fragile, it’s the whole club, including mostly the fans.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Honestly, he looks and sounds massively out of his depth.

Just something I'm sensing here. It feels like he made a major misstep this summer, and now is seeing no way to pull us back out of it.

At the end of last season, he had us playing stolid but effective football, with a team of battlers who were horrible on the ball but fought to stave off relegation. That worked.

Then he dismantled that side over the summer, bringing in his own players, ruthlessly selling (or trying to sell) the old ones, and overhauling the tactics and coaching staff to play 'his' way.

Only to discover that 'his' way is just not working in the Premier League, for a number of reasons. Whether it's teams adapting to his 'bait the press and play in behind' approach or lacking a striker to really threaten. We are being figured out, fast. His tactical tinkering to try to fix this, and his strange personnel choices, are backfiring.

And his transfer picks aren't working. His 'son', van Hecke, is being beaten all ends up and isn't showing any leadership on the pitch. Neither is his chosen captain, Micky. Tonali looks ineffective. Marmoush and Savio, likewise.

And mostly, his responses to discovering this have been flailing around trying to find an excuse. The trip to Australia. Mentality. Fitness. The Richarlison situation.

Lots of excuses, to hide the simple fact that he has no excuses. He has been backed more than any other manager in the history of this club. He has his staff. He has his players. He has one game a week. And he is failing miserably to deliver.

I don't think the club will sack him just yet. But if the next clutch of games comes and goes with us still winless, I think he's out the door. And no one will ever give him the sort of control and support he had at Spurs, ever again - rightfully so.

Again, I think he sees it coming. Honestly think he has maybe 3-4 games to save his job.

And honestly, I think he's starting to realize it too. He has the look of a man starting to realize he mucked up.

 

[Surfless]

Honestly, he looks and sounds massively out of his depth.

Just something I'm sensing here. It feels like he made a major misstep this summer, and now is seeing no way to pull us back out of it.

At the end of last season, he had us playing stolid but effective football, with a team of battlers who were horrible on the ball but fought to stave off relegation. That worked.

Then he dismantled that side over the summer, bringing in his own players, ruthlessly selling (or trying to sell) the old ones, and overhauling the tactics and coaching staff to play 'his' way.

Only to discover that 'his' way is just not working in the Premier League, for a number of reasons. Whether it's teams adapting to his 'bait the press and play in behind' approach or lacking a striker to really threaten. We are being figured out, fast. His tactical tinkering to try to fix this, and his strange personnel choices, are backfiring.

And his transfer picks aren't working. His 'son', van Hecke, is being beaten all ends up and isn't showing any leadership on the pitch. Neither is his chosen captain, Micky. Tonali looks ineffective. Marmoush and Savio, likewise.

And mostly, his responses to discovering this have been flailing around trying to find an excuse. The trip to Australia. Mentality. Fitness. The Richarlison situation.

Lots of excuses, to hide the simple fact that he has no excuses. He has been backed more than any other manager in the history of this club. He has his staff. He has his players. He has one game a week. And he is failing miserably to deliver.

I don't think the club will sack him just yet. But if the next clutch of games comes and goes with us still winless, I think he's out the door. And no one will ever give him the sort of control and support he had at Spurs, ever again - rightfully so.

Again, I think he sees it coming. Honestly think he has maybe 3-4 games to save his job.

And honestly, I think he's starting to realize it too. He has the look of a man starting to realize he mucked up.

I'd say that is a slightly dramatic take on the situation.

When he's built new teams before they have had stodgy starts - and this is a new team. To shed Vic, Romero, Danso, Biss, Sarr, Richie and not yet have Madders, Kulu, or Xavi available, means this is a new side, which has to adapt to each other and his approach simultaneously.

The suggestion that we are predictable or easily worked out doesn't really hold water when you look at the problems we caused villa yesterday. What was missing was a clinical finish, and irrespective of the resukt, getting two late goals will have got that particular money off the teams' back.

To say he's out of his depth doesn't really work for me either. He's managed in war zones, he's managed clubs in better shape than us and the suggestion he can't cope with the situation doesn't work for me.

To come full circle, his team's always needs time. A mibrick shot from Bergvall or Marmoush yesterday and we are two up against a brittle villa. That would have changed the game in our favour. It's about moments, not the overall setup of the team. This isn't a Frank situation, it's about patience and watching everything drop into place.

 

[DeanoAustin]

He has the look of a man starting to realize he mucked up.

What makes you say that or what about his appearance says that?

 

[harr1984]

It's fine to be unhappy, fine to be critical of elements of performances. But it's a completely revamped team of which we've shown good periods in every game bar the first game and we are no longer getting dominated and overrun.

Of course we aren't where we would expect to be, but five games - it's been five games....

 

[thfcsteff]

We are going to need some leaders. That is the main issue for me. I see none. Only Gallagher when he plays (and remember, last weekend I was the one asking what exactly it was that he does!!!!)...

Who is going to bring the attitude? Who is going to make sure that when we concede a stupid goal we take it as an insult not an injury? Who is going to use a marginal offside goal as fuel for determination as opposed to shrinkage? Who is going to pump a fist for their teammate or gee them up when meeking about?

Who in our squad has that?
Because I think THAT is what we need the most.

I think where RDZ is flummoxed is in the lack of character/leadership personality. He would call it this group 'finding its culture'.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I'd say that is a slightly dramatic take on the situation.

When he's built new teams before they have had stodgy starts - and this is a new team. To shed Vic, Romero, Danso, Biss, Sarr, Richie and not yet have Madders, Kulu, or Xavi available, means this is a new side, which has to adapt to each other and his approach simultaneously.

The suggestion that we are predictable or easily worked out doesn't really hold water when you look at the problems we caused villa yesterday. What was missing was a clinical finish, and irrespective of the resukt, getting two late goals will have got that particular money off the teams' back.

To say he's out of his depth doesn't really work for me either. He's managed in war zones, he's managed clubs in better shape than us and the suggestion he can't cope with the situation doesn't work for me.

To come full circle, his team's always needs time. A mibrick shot from Bergvall or Marmoush yesterday and we are two up against a brittle villa. That would have changed the game in our favour. It's about moments, not the overall setup of the team. This isn't a Frank situation, it's about patience and watching everything drop into place.

To be clear, it isn't the chance creation that concerns me. We are creating a little more now than we did last season, and not converting them - that's 100% true. Though, our xg is still middle of the pack, so it's not a dramatic amount.

But there's wider weaknesses here that bother me, and that he seems a little lost about.

The first is the lack of leadership on the pitch, which seems like something entirely down to him and his choices. Van de Ven, his chosen captain, is not a leader. His 'son', van Hecke, is struggling even to put in a decent performance himself, never mind lead the back line. In midfield and up front, no one is taking charge when we suffer a setback - heads fall too easily.

The second is just the terrible attitude the players are showing. There's precious little unity when things are hard - lots of scowling, lots of pointing and moaning, no team spirit to speak of.

Both are a big factor in why we're so weak right now. And will persist as weaknesses even if we steal a goal or a victory here or there.

And, apart from that, we are 5 games in with no wins - get to 8 games without a win and the '2 points from 8 games' spectre raises its head. At that point no one can save him, imo - he'll be tossed just because a traumatized club does not want to spend another season battling relegation.

 

[harr1984]

We are going to need some leaders. That is the main issue for me. I see none. Only Gallagher when he plays (and remember, last weekend I was the one asking what exactly it was that he does!!!!)...

Who is going to bring the attitude? Who is going to make sure that when we concede a stupid goal we take it as an insult not an injury? Who is going to use a marginal offside goal as fuel for determination as opposed to shrinkage? Who is going to pump a fist for their teammate or gee them up when meeking about?

Who in our squad has that?
Because I think THAT is what we need the most.

I think where RDZ is flummoxed is in the lack of character/leadership personality. He would call it this group 'finding its culture'.

Good point with leadership, and certainly don't agree with VDV being the captain but there are a few others in the good old trusted leadership group anyway so not all on him.

What I will say is that it's a totally different and new team still finding its way and as such chemistry. Over time such leadership can develop, it doesn't always happen instantly within a new group. For example and just throwing it out there I could see the likes of Tonali, Fernandes and even Bergvall growing into leaders along with Bentancur who is a calming presence.

All is not lost in that area, just take a little time to get the chemistry right I reckon just like the actual football part....

 

[DubaiSpur]

What makes you say that or what about his appearance says that?

It's his press conferences mate. For example, in his latest one where he remarked he'd never coached a team like ours that is so unstable mentally - that is your job, the thing you were brought in to fix. Complaining about it is a warning sign, imo, that he may not actually know how to fix it.

Same with his long tirades about Richarlison - he speaks about him an awful lot for someone he's exiled, and I'm not sure he isn't trying to justify his decision amidst our goal drought. Again, points to an underlying feeling (imo) that he made mistakes this summer he has no easy fix for.

I've never warmed to de Zerbi as a person, and I've made no secret of that fact. But I'm starting to wonder, for the first time, if he actually has the acumen to fix the situation he specifically put in place. I hope I'm wrong, but this is starting to feel very familiar.

 

[billyiddo]

Honestly, he looks and sounds massively out of his depth.

Just something I'm sensing here. It feels like he made a major misstep this summer, and now is seeing no way to pull us back out of it.

At the end of last season, he had us playing stolid but effective football, with a team of battlers who were horrible on the ball but fought to stave off relegation. That worked.

Then he dismantled that side over the summer, bringing in his own players, ruthlessly selling (or trying to sell) the old ones, and overhauling the tactics and coaching staff to play 'his' way.

Only to discover that 'his' way is just not working in the Premier League, for a number of reasons. Whether it's teams adapting to his 'bait the press and play in behind' approach or lacking a striker to really threaten. We are being figured out, fast. His tactical tinkering to try to fix this, and his strange personnel choices, are backfiring.

And his transfer picks aren't working. His 'son', van Hecke, is being beaten all ends up and isn't showing any leadership on the pitch. Neither is his chosen captain, Micky. Tonali looks ineffective. Marmoush and Savio, likewise.

And mostly, his responses to discovering this have been flailing around trying to find an excuse. The trip to Australia. Mentality. Fitness. The Richarlison situation.

Lots of excuses, to hide the simple fact that he has no excuses. He has been backed more than any other manager in the history of this club. He has his staff. He has his players. He has one game a week. And he is failing miserably to deliver.

I don't think the club will sack him just yet. But if the next clutch of games comes and goes with us still winless, I think he's out the door. And no one will ever give him the sort of control and support he had at Spurs, ever again - rightfully so.

Again, I think he sees it coming. Honestly think he has maybe 3-4 games to save his job.

And honestly, I think he's starting to realize it too. He has the look of a man starting to realize he mucked up.

I think that's an extreme take, although i see and agree with (most) points just not the level you are going in on him for at this stage.

Last season was a needs must situation, 7 games to stave off relegation - an entirely different proposition to going in to a new season with a transfer window and presesson under your belt. Had we stayed up and he joined at the end of the season i imagine this is the approach he would have adopted - so i don't see that as a stick to beat him with. I don’t think there was anything in those 7 games that would translate to a better start this season - the target of survival is no longer so prominent so the do or die motivation would not be here and ultimately the form and performances were not great, we just managed to claw ourselves enough points and were fortunate West Hams form hit a wall.

Agree with the sentiment re:excuses and him starting to feel the heat - our recent managers can mostly all point their finger at the club, he has no such luxury, given the backing, and if it goes tits up his reputation will be in tatters

 

[thfcsteff]

Good point with leadership, and certainly don't agree with VDV being the captain but there are a few others in the good old trusted leadership group anyway so not all on him.

What I will say is that it's a totally different and new team still finding its way and as such chemistry. Over time such leadership can develop, it doesn't always happen instantly within a new group. For example and just throwing it out there I could see the likes of Tonali, Fernandes and even Bergvall growing into leaders along with Bentancur who is a calming presence.

All is not lost in that area, just take a little time to get the chemistry right I reckon just like the actual football part....

Always felt Bergvall has 'that' about him for sure. Not sure about Tonali in that regard.
Feel sorry for VdV as he is leading IMO but needs others.