Richarlison

[Bishop]

Sometimes he does quite well in those regards. Sometimes he doesn't. Overall he's definitely not great at it.

There are different types of strikers with different strengts and weaknesses. Being alright, but not great at holdup play is fine if you're good enough at other stuff. We should try to play to the strengths of our players.

Bournemouth were set up precisely to deal with those passes/balls up to him. And were able to do so well because our lack of creativity in midfield.

He mostly does poorly in those situations, not sometimes. The few times he actually stays on his feet are the exception to the rule. Again, your standards are too low in this regard.

Support our players sure but not to the detrimental of the side.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He isn't that big is he?

6ft plus
He isn’t Defoe

 

[braineclipse]

He mostly does poorly in those situations, not sometimes. The few times he actually stays on his feet are the exception to the rule. Again, your standards are too low in this regard.

Support our players sure but not to the detrimental of the side.

In what way is my support of a player to the detriment of the side?

Against Burnley and City we managed to play to Richarlison's strengths and he did well. Against Bournemouth we didn't and he didn't do well. That's imo perfectly understandable and expected given what we know about Richarlison.

What standard should I be using in your opinion?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Typical that he has a shocker when we give him essentially no useful service.

What he's also good at that doesn't require service is generating chaos from difficult situations. But getting something useful out of that requires us having players and runs around and beyond him, we didn't really do that from what I can see.

He also kept falling over and barely won any aerial duals.

 

[Jurgen the German]

In what way is my support of a player to the detriment of the side?

Against Burnley and City we managed to play to Richarlison's strengths and he did well. Against Bournemouth we didn't and he didn't do well. That's imo perfectly understandable and expected given what we know about Richarlison.

What standard should I be using in your opinion?

This was a Bournemouth defence that have barely played together btw as there defence has been gutted.

 

[braineclipse]

6ft plus
He isn’t Defoe

Which is around average for a PL striker? (according to a quick google search on my end)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Which is around average for a PL striker? (according to a quick google search on my end)

Yep
So he is a big lad
Problem is he is weak as tinkle
His hold up play is bad, very bad, which I put down to not being a CF for his career and also maybe his Everton days where they played for set pieces
His strength is finding suave for his one touch finishes, just like Johnson
Issue is when you play an aggressive side with a high line you need that hold up play and you need midfield passing. We had neither

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yep
So he is a big lad
Problem is he is weak as tinkle
His hold up play is bad, very bad, which I put down to not being a CF for his career and also maybe his Everton days where they played for set pieces
His strength is finding suave for his one touch finishes, just like Johnson
Issue is when you play an aggressive side with a high line you need that hold up play and you need midfield passing. We had neither

Do you agree with @braineclipse that having Simons would have made a big difference? Plus how big a miss do you think Solanke was?

 

[braineclipse]

Yep
So he is a big lad
Problem is he is weak as tinkle
His hold up play is bad, very bad, which I put down to not being a CF for his career and also maybe his Everton days where they played for set pieces
His strength is finding suave for his one touch finishes, just like Johnson
Issue is when you play an aggressive side with a high line you need that hold up play and you need midfield passing. We had neither

Average = big?

I guess I agree on what we needed. I don't think it's fair to expect Richarlison to give us that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Do you agree with @braineclipse that having Simons would have made a big difference? Plus how big a miss do you think Solanke was?

Yes to both
Simons passes and retains possession
Solanke holds the ball up real really well
But they aren’t available
That’s where the manager needed to do something different with his set up

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Average = big?

I guess I agree on what we needed. I don't think it's fair to expect Richarlison to give us that.

Bigger than most players
Over 6ft is big
It’s why teams like a big striker
I think it’s fair to expect him to hold the ball… it’s his job
He just isn’t very good at it
He has other strengths but we couldn’t use them

 

[braineclipse]

Bigger than most players
Over 6ft is big
It’s why teams like a big striker
I think it’s fair to expect him to hold the ball… it’s his job
He just isn’t very good at it
He has other strengths but we couldn’t use them

But not bigger than most strikers, that's kinda what average means.

Why is it fair to expect him to be good at something you know he isn't good at? You said earlier his hold up play is "bad, very bad". How is it then fair to expect him to be good at it?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But not bigger than most strikers, that's kinda what average means.

Why is it fair to expect him to be good at something you know he isn't good at? You said earlier his hold up play is "bad, very bad". How is it then fair to expect him to be good at it?

But he is a big man and a striker
He isn’t the new lad at Saudi Sportswashing Machine but he is bigger than wissa and wissa holds the ball better than him

I don’t expect him to get better at it
I expect the coach to see the weakness and adjust the set up. We didn’t change anything in reality

No point banging it to a player who can’t keep it

The match glory glory pod talks about it and nails it well IMO

 

[Jurgen the German]

Average = big?

I guess I agree on what we needed. I don't think it's fair to expect Richarlison to give us that.

I think it’s fair to expect him to stay on his feet and not spend most of the game on the floor and be able to control a ball. He’s a strong guy but he barely won any headers or tackles on Saturday. It’s not his fault that Solanke wasn’t available but we really needed more from him given we were short in that position. I take the point about not getting service but he didn’t do the basics to an acceptable standard on Saturday.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think it’s fair to expect him to stay on his feet and not spend most of the game on the floor and be able to control a ball. He’s a strong guy but he barely won any headers or tackles on Saturday. It’s not his fault that Solanke wasn’t available but we really needed more from him given we were short in that position. I take the point about not getting service but he didn’t do the basics to an acceptable standard on Saturday.

I don’t think he can do those basics well enough generally
His strength is finding space to get on the end of things. They were touch tight on him and it never stuck… not once I think and that’s his game
He will still contribute plenty this season but not against an aggressive side IMO

 

[Bishop]

In what way is my support of a player to the detriment of the side?

Against Burnley and City we managed to play to Richarlison's strengths and he did well. Against Bournemouth we didn't and he didn't do well. That's imo perfectly understandable and expected given what we know about Richarlison.

What standard should I be using in your opinion?

Compared to his peers Richy is particularly poor at holding, controlling and moving the ball on. This is why I'm saying you are lowering your standards or just have lower standards for what is expected from a forward.

Richy had a very good game against City terms of holding the ball but it is very much the exception to the norm not his usual play standard. That's the issue, recency bias is making you not actually remember his typical performances.

 

[Bishop]

Average = big?

I guess I agree on what we needed. I don't think it's fair to expect Richarlison to give us that.

You don't think it's fair to expect a striker to do some of the basics tasks of a striker to a decent level? What exactly is the point of this player again?

Whether he is good at it or not it's what is needed at times and if he can't offer this then he's not going to be up to scratch. We can't just ask our opponents "please don't ask us to play in way that Richy is crap at, it doesn't suit him" no, sometimes if that is what is needed then that's what we need. Sure Richy can:t do it but let's not make excuses for him, let's just get a player of the required standard please.

 

[metalgear]

interesting to see if TF keeps richy up front and centre or replaces him with kolo immediately

 

[braineclipse]

Compared to his peers Richy is particularly poor at holding, controlling and moving the ball on. This is why I'm saying you are lowering your standards or just have lower standards for what is expected from a forward.

Richy had a very good game against City terms of holding the ball but it is very much the exception to the norm not his usual play standard. That's the issue, recency bias is making you not actually remember his typical performances.

You don't think it's fair to expect a striker to do some of the basics tasks of a striker to a decent level? What exactly is the point of this player again?

Whether he is good at it or not it's what is needed at times and if he can't offer this then he's not going to be up to scratch. We can't just ask our opponents "please don't ask us to play in way that Richy is crap at, it doesn't suit him" no, sometimes if that is what is needed then that's what we need. Sure Richy can:t do it but let's not make excuses for him, let's just get a player of the required standard please.

If you're going to make strong statements at least be willing to back them up... In what way is my support of the player to the detriment of the side?

We apparently see things very differently on him. I see your opinion as rather black and white, what I think of as some nuance on my side you see as excuse making. Not sure there's much agreement to be found

 

[Bishop]

If you're going to make strong statements at least be willing to back them up... In what way is my support of the player to the detriment of the side?

We apparently see things very differently on him. I see your opinion as rather black and white, what I think of as some nuance on my side you see as excuse making. Not sure there's much agreement to be found

I'm saying we can support a player, hope for the best from them etc but not to the detriment of the side.

Its not that I see it as black and white I simply don't see him as good enough and as I've posted for years on this board about him it's not even based purely on his Spurs stint. I watched this guy at Fulham, Everton and even Brazil. His faults aren't new, his lack of co trol is not new. This is him. I posted you the stats that even show compared to his peers he is below standard on those areas.