Richarlison

[spurspinter1]

You don't think managers try and play players into form? It happens all the time.

As for Ange, he's achieved nothing. He's done very well so far, but if it all fell apart next week, he'd barely be a footnote in the history of the club. He's a far more significant manager now than he was a few months ago as he's held a real job, but he's still only had 10 matches in a real job.

I don't think it's as binary as simply being in and out of form. No one could argue that Richy is in good goal scoring form (although he'll definitely be our top scorer in the league cup this season lol) but it's about what he's doing outside of that. There's an interesting parallel with Kulu on the other side as well, not getting goals but the work rate / pressing / running is a big part of what is making us difficult to play against. Could be wrong but I don't see either being dropped for Johnson just yet who has had less time to learn the system and also had the injury of course. Either way it's good to have the option to provide different challenges for the opposition.

Regarding Ange I think re-uniting the fanbase and making us enjoyable to watch for people who don't appreciate counter attacking or defensive football is a massive achievement, you don't get a trophy for that though of course but the season isn't a failure if we don't win the league or the FA cup, it's just about improving as a team, especially given the changes in management / moving on from Kane.

As for you proudly declaring you don't understand what the word real means, you do you mate but it's not worth engaging with.

 

[billyiddo]

The push-back posts are as equally tedious as the spacegoat posts

 

[Jurgen the German]

The push-back posts are as equally tedious as the spacegoat posts

Yep. Everyone would agree he works hard but he’s not the only player who works his socks off and you’d think he was judging by some of the posts. I mean it’s not like we’ve struggled when he’s not been on the pitch.

 

[monkeybarry]

The push-back posts are as equally tedious as the spacegoat posts

If we pushed the posts back he might hit the target

 

[spurspinter1]

The push-back posts are as equally tedious as the spacegoat posts

Everyone has their own measure of what is a spacegoat / pushback post and what is indeed tedious or not. For example, I'd find it tedious being in a crowd of grown ups pretending that guns and roses aren't totally fudging awful these days, but others would pay good money to be in that nightmare situation, horses for courses and all that.

Do you want people to not discuss Richy in this thread? You're entitled to add your own thoughts but moaning about other people sharing theirs seems about as unproductive as me bringing how dogbrick GNR have been for the last couple of decades up in this thread.

Hasty late night post drinking edit - Something bringing joy to you is cool so it's petty / childish for me to hone in on that, even if it's trash as joy is a beautiful thing. But this odd trend of moaning about people discussing things on a discussion forum is something I can't wrap my head around but it's popping up on a few threads - It's like clicking on the comments section of a YouTube video and being surprised there's people sharing their opinion. Ideally there'd be more discussions had in good faith but this whole internet thing, it's a jungle out there.

 

[spurspinter1]

If we pushed the posts back he might hit the target

Widening them out seems like the better option if we could get on the FA with that request...

 

[Modric THFC]

The push-back posts are as equally tedious as the spacegoat posts

That's what you get when the forum is formatted in this way. There is no real team discussion thread. Instead the series of threads of various players are what's always bumped. Are they good or are they brick, fight about it. And there's a current match thread focusing on whatever incident happened.

 

[spurspinter1]

Yep. Everyone would agree he works hard but he’s not the only player who works his socks off and you’d think he was judging by some of the posts. I mean it’s not like we’ve struggled when he’s not been on the pitch.

Nobody's said other players don't work as hard, it's a unified front. It's pretty clear that the front three are all pressing monsters (so much so with Son that he can barely finish a game even with just one a week) and I don't think it'd be the same if Kane were around. The other options ie Johnson / Gill will know they have to emulate it so get in to the team, it's a healthy situation and great to have competition.

As for the struggling when he's not on the pitch, I don't know if you recall the Sheffield United game but might be worth a rewatch, at least the highlights as it does somewhat contradict your point and is also fun to watch (as are the vast majority of our games this season, long may it continue!!!!)

 

[braineclipse]

He did get some minutes last season the left and other than some of the sub minutes he was just as poor. The truth Conte system didn't suit him, Ange's system doesn't suit him in either the CF or LWF role so what does?

We are making all these excuses to hide from the truth. He's simply not up to standard. That's really it, I like his hustle I appreciate his hard work but everything else about his game is not up to spec. Even yesterday I said in the first half he was our best attacker and I'll stand by that but it wasn't because he was playing particularly well it's because he was putting in the same below standard performance but every other attacker was just as bad or worse.

Let's laugh at his jokes and memes, let's appreciate the togetherness he adds but let's not pretend that he has not been a total failure and is simply not good enough.

That's just the truth.

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I think he is a good fit for the striker role in this system. Not perfect, but a good fit. I think he's about as good as any established backup striker as we could hope of signing or having.

He is definitely up to that standard. Up to him to prove himself to be even better than that, of that I'm more doubtful, but let's see.

I'm really happy he's in the squad.

 

[braineclipse]

I don’t even think his overall play has been that bad, just not up to the standard we need. I’m sure he will get plenty of opportunities to prove himself. But I’m not looking forward to the prospect of him leading the line whilst Son is away with South Korea in January.

I have my concerns too about him starting when Son isn't there. That's the thing about backup strikers, they're usually not as good as the starters.

Someone that could play wide and up front, get more minutes like that would be good. But those players are really difficult to find.

 

[Roland Beurre]

That's the thing about backup strikers, they're usually not as good as the starters.

Nico Claesen says "hello".

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Nico Claesen says "hello".

Slightly before my time but wouldnt he have had Clive Allen as his competition if he was an out and out striker?

 

[braineclipse]

Yep. Everyone would agree he works hard but he’s not the only player who works his socks off and you’d think he was judging by some of the posts. I mean it’s not like we’ve struggled when he’s not been on the pitch.

I don't think it's an attempt to make it seem like he's the only one working his socks off.

To me it's more an acknowledgement that even though he's not performing great he's doing those fundamentals right. And that's a good thing.

What more can we ask from a forward struggling for form and goals? Is it not worth pointing out as a positive in his situation?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Nobody's said other players don't work as hard, it's a unified front. It's pretty clear that the front three are all pressing monsters (so much so with Son that he can barely finish a game even with just one a week) and I don't think it'd be the same if Kane were around. The other options ie Johnson / Gill will know they have to emulate it so get in to the team, it's a healthy situation and great to have competition.

As for the struggling when he's not on the pitch, I don't know if you recall the Sheffield United game but might be worth a rewatch, at least the highlights as it does somewhat contradict your point and is also fun to watch (as are the vast majority of our games this season, long may it continue!!!!)

I was at the Sheffield United game and Richarlison definitely made a difference when he came on. I don’t think overall his performances have been that great. Not poor but about average. Arsenal was arguably our best performance of the season when you factor the opposition and magnitude of the game and Richarlison was on the bench. I’m not suggesting the two are connected but we have played well and scored plenty of goals when he’s not been on the pitch.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't think it's an attempt to make it seem like he's the only one working his socks off.

To me it's more an acknowledgement that even though he's not performing great he's doing those fundamentals right. And that's a good thing.

What more can we ask from a forward struggling for form and goals? Is it not worth pointing out as a positive in his situation?

It’s fine to point out he works hard. I just think the point is sometimes overstated and I’ve seen people post that he’s vital to our pressing game which I disagree with. All of the forwards need to press and work hard and all of them do. I’ll reiterate that I don’t believe he’s been especially poor but at the same time I don’t think he’s doing enough to be first choice and I’d like to see Johnson get the nod for a few games. We will absolutely need to call on Richarlison for his hard work and aerial ability but I don’t think he should be starting the majority of games unless he all of a sudden becomes more prolific and creative.

 

[parklane1]

It’s fine to point out he works hard. I just think the point is sometimes overstated and I’ve seen people post that he’s vital to our pressing game which I disagree with. All of the forwards need to press and work hard and all of them do. I’ll reiterate that I don’t believe he’s been especially poor but at the same time I don’t think he’s doing enough to be first choice and I’d like to see Johnson get the nod for a few games. We will absolutely need to call on Richarlison for his hard work and aerial ability but I don’t think he should be starting the majority of games unless he all of a sudden becomes more prolific and creative.

Fair comments and i do not think most will diagree. However your last sentence ( bolded) is the important one (imo), how do we get him to be more creative and prolific unless we do play him.

i understand that he hs not set the house on fire but i really do not agree with those who says he has been that poor. ( not saying you have).

 

[Bishop]

I think he is a good fit for the striker role in this system. Not perfect, but a good fit. I think he's about as good as any established backup striker as we could hope of signing or having.

He is definitely up to that standard. Up to him to prove himself to be even better than that, of that I'm more doubtful, but let's see.

I'm really happy he's in the squad.

A good fit how though? He doesn't score, he doesn't create, his hold up is poor. He has good pressing work rate but that alone surely can't be enough to say he's a good fit for the striker role?

I'm intrigued as to what you see that makes him a good fit?

I think he's a better player than he has shown but I'm starting to wonder if I'm one of the few who actually watched him play for Watford and Everton. He's better than this but not by much.

Also he's not a backup striker, he was bought to replace Kane. It was done one season early to aid a smooth transition. He's now a backup striker because he hasn't been good enough to keep a starting position.

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[braineclipse]

A good fit how though? He doesn't score, he doesn't create, his hold up is poor. He has good pressing work rate but that alone surely can't be enough to say he's a good fit for the striker role?

I'm intrigued as to what you see that makes him a good fit?

I think he's a better player than he has shown but I'm starting to wonder if I'm one of the few who actually watched him play for Watford and Everton. He's better than this but not by much.

Also he's not a backup striker, he was bought to replace Kane. It was done one season early to aid a smooth transition. He's now a backup striker because he hasn't been good enough to keep a starting position.

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He's a threat in behind, has good movement, creates space for others. Reasonably quick. Quite good at creating a bit He's a decent target for crosses. And he presses well.

The only way he's not a good fit is that he's not a clinical finisher.

I don't get your final paragraph. He's not a backup striker. But he is a backup striker? I don't particularly care why he was signed over a year ago. He's currently our backup striker.

 

[johnola]

That's what you get when the forum is formatted in this way. There is no real team discussion thread. Instead the series of threads of various players are what's always bumped. Are they good or are they brick, fight about it. And there's a current match thread focusing on whatever incident happened.

well why not start one?

 

[Jurgen the German]

He's a threat in behind, has good movement, creates space for others. Reasonably quick. Quite good at creating a bit He's a decent target for crosses. And he presses well.

The only way he's not a good fit is that he's not a clinical finisher.

I don't get your final paragraph. He's not a backup striker. But he is a backup striker? I don't particularly care why he was signed over a year ago. He's currently our backup striker.

He should be a backup LWF who can fill in at CF in an emergency. I know people are trying to be level headed about the chances of us challenging for the title this season which is sensible but if we’re serious about challenging the likes of Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal and Liverpool in seasons to come then I definitely believe we will need better forwards starting for us than Richarlison, could possibly be the same situation for Kulu but I hold more hope for him as he was on fire before his injury. Those teams have more firepower than us collectively amongst their forwards.