Relegation Battle Watch

[billyiddo]

Every other club was left in a stronger position.

Haha

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Haha

Well he lasted nearly a decade at Bournemouth, won promotion and he wasn't sacked. West Ham had been promoted for one year and finished regularly in the top half in the 7 years he was there. Political sacking. Pompey were 20th in the 1st division, left them in 6th after 8th/9th places. Not sacked, poached by us. Tottenham 4th having been 20th, 11th and 5th. Political sacking. His big mouth has probably got him sacked twice but he's got a more than credible record over 30 years.

 

[billyiddo]

Ask the fans of Portsmouth and West Ham if they think he left them in good shape - Im sure they'll have a different take on it than you

He has a more than credible record i agree, but you were talking him up a bit too much on the last page - he's a good premiership manager, no more no less

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Ask the fans of Portsmouth and West Ham if they think he left them in good shape - Im sure they'll have a different take on it than you

Redknapp was getting the freedom of the city of Portsmouth in the week after he left! Bit odd to give them to someone who'd done badly with the city's club! The Southampton departure was then also dragged up again after this. Most West Ham pre-Spurs regarded him very, very highly. It changed when he came here and did well. It is a bit like asking spurs fans about george graham. Are you likely to get a sober analysis from everyone? Too much water under the bridge. It would be better to ask what most neutral would think looking at his record at both clubs.

He has a more than credible record i agree, but you were talking him up a bit too much on the last page - he's a good premiership manager, no more no less

And how many of those have there been? How many have ever bowed out having finished 4th at a club like Spurs? Claudio Ranieri at Chelsea maybe? They are few and far between. The vast majority get sacked after struggling. So saying he is in the top 5 premiership managers is hardly OTT. Even Wenger is potentially destroying his legacy over the last few years. Benitez left Liverpool in 7th. Bobby Robson in the bottom 3 with Saudi Sportswashing Machine. And these are the ones I'd accept as having more ability but they struggled badly towards the end. So you say this rather dismissively but if you think about it, it is something of a compliment. Even then, outside of the pl... quarter finals of the CL? How long did that take Wenger and Arsenal? 5 years was it? 3 or 4 years for Man Utd, in a smaller competition? City now 2 years without getting out of the group? We got a tough group draw and smashed it! Sorry but on record, if not ability, he is in the top 5.

 

[billyiddo]

there's not much more i can say really, we clearly look at what he has 'achieved' rather differently

How many have ever bowed out having finished 4th at a club like Spurs?

this is quite telling - a club like Spurs /plucky little Portsmouth etc etc - these were two teams that were backed considerably well in the transfer market and paid high in wages, wages that matched up more or less with where they finished in the table each season Portsmouth weren't a team full of Championship cloggers on low wages that he had punching well above their weight same as we weren't a team full of mid table also rans who he dragged to the Champions League - we were both more or less where the squad and financial outlay dictated we should be.

what Redknapp is good at, actually what Redknapp is great at is building good teams and motivating them, when it requires a bit of managerial ingenuity outside of that then he falls short - IMV actually think he'd be a decent DoF of sorts at the right club, if the chairman kept him on a tight leash financially. . .

 

[Harry_Perkins]

this is quite telling - a club like Spurs /plucky little Portsmouth etc etc

No, that is the opposite of what I meant with Spurs. I meant a big club with big expectations. Hence the examples of Wenger, Robson, Benitez etc. That said, we've been backed to do a lot better going back to the mid 90s! So have many, many other clubs and managers. Again, this is a sort of back handed compliment.

these were two teams that were backed considerably well in the transfer market and paid high in wages, wages that matched up more or less with where they finished in the table each season Portsmouth weren't a team full of Championship cloggers on low wages that he had punching well above their weight same as we weren't a team full of mid table also rans who he dragged to the Champions League - we were both more or less where the squad and financial outlay dictated we should be

Many clubs in the championship have been/are backed the way Pompey were and didn't/haven't even get promotion. Again, look at the Pompey promotion squad I posted earlier and the one that had finished 17th. It was hardly major bankrolling that got them up. There are loads of stronger cases for this in the PL. See Al Fayed at Fulham and Whelan at Wigan to bring those clubs right through the divisions. I remember Fulham under Keegan paying 2 million for Geoff Horsfield in the 3rd division! And after all that subsidising from Al Fayed, it took them 8 years in the PL to record their highest finish of.... 7th. Wigan haven't bettered 10th in 8 years. Pompey were 8th/9th in the last two seasons and FA Cup Winners. And I didn't say anything about plucky Portsmouth anyway. I said they were relative minnows, which they are/were. They got good backing at the time from Mandaric. Enough to get up for sure but establishing them in the top flight and then heading for a 3rd season in the top half, by the time he left? More than well established in the PL after 6 years? The only non-top 4 side (discounting the City circus which bought it) to win the FA Cup in the last 15 years? Sorry but none of that is par for the course on any measure. Same at West Ham. Look at there squad that finished 5th. They had been a yo-yo club when he took over but after 7 years were finishing in the top half, more often than not. brick, they were finishing about Spurs, more often than not! And a far better backed Spurs, for that matter, along with several other clubs!

what Redknapp is good at, actually what Redknapp is great at is building good teams and motivating them, when it requires a bit of managerial ingenuity outside of that then he falls short - IMV actually think he'd be a decent DoF of sorts at the right club, if the chairman kept him on a tight leash financially. . .

Oh to an extent I agree with this. He's not a top, top bracket manager and it is why, along with his reputation for causing trouble to the people at the very top, he's unlikely to get a job like Spurs again. However, it doesn't detract that in terms of 'best of the rest' he is right up there and could do a job for such jobs, the same as he did here.

 

[billyiddo]

I said they were relative minnows, which they are/were. They got good backing at the time from Mandaric. Enough to get up for sure but establishing them in the top flight and then heading for a 3rd season in the top half, by the time he left? More than well established in the PL after 6 years? The only non-top 4 side (discounting the City circus which bought it) to win the FA Cup in the last 15 years? Sorry but none of that is par for the course on any measure

yes, they paid the wages a top 10 club in the premier league pay and quite rightly finished in the top 10 = par for the course

(my 'plucky portsmouth' comment was aimed at the way you seem to be so impressed that it is with Portsmouth that he got to 10th or wherever in the league rather than the actual league finish itself - which is what it really seems to be - Portsmouth paid the money to get themselves to that position and paid the ultimate price a handful of seasons later when it all caved in on itself)


an FA Cup win with a team like Portmsouth (top 10) does not automatically make the manager of that team a great one - the repeated use of this as some kind of top trump to the debate does not wash with me im afraid mate

 

[Harry_Perkins]

yes, they paid the wages a top 10 club in the premier league pay and quite rightly finished in the top 10 = par for the course

Well, just looking at the year they finished 8th, below them were the following that would have had more clout in the market than Pompey over that period: Emirates Marketing Project (a year into the takeover), Tottenham, Wigan, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Middlesbrough and Fulham. Above them were: Blackburn, Villa, Everton and the usual suspects. Only Everton would have had less clout in that period. On that basis, they should have been about 13th/14th. Most of their big spending actually came to avoid the drop when he went back there. So they were on par for being a lower midtable side fighting the drop, as many recently newly promoted clubs are. Who are the big survivors in recent times? Wigan and Fulham both backed far more strongly over the years than Portsmouth. Out of the mainstays of Man Utd, Spurs, Villa, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine... not many others have lasted 6+ seasons. And they looked in no danger the year he left either. West Ham were another before under him too. A good 8 or 9 years in the top flight.

an FA Cup win with a team like Portmsouth (top 10) does not automatically make the manager of that team a great one - the repeated use of this as some kind of top trump to the debate does not wash with me im afraid mate

I didn't say he was 'great' as such. I try to avoid that sort of objective comment and look at results and comparisons. I was asked what parts of his record made him stand out or something along those lines. Winning a trophy that only the top 4 have won for the last 15 years seems a pretty solid answer to that. It is very easy to say these things are par for the course, nothing special etc but it needs to be measured up against the realities.

 

[metalgear]

Interesting views, Harry Perkins. Looking forward to more.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Could be very interesting if Wigan were to win their 2 games in hand to match Villa on 30pts, that mean everyone from Stoke City(34pts) downwards would be looking over their shoulder

 

[Mumorn]

now fudge off QPR.

 

[paxtonwolf]

now fudge off QPR.

Wont be losing any sleep over them going down, but hopefully they are doing us a favour aiding Townsends development, plus they did take Jenas off our wagebill

 

[onlyme]

Wigan beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2-1 today. Gettting very interesting.
Fat Sam demanding a new contract and they ain't safe. Olympic stadium?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live-scores

Just have a look at West Ham's fixtures.

 

[Baleforce]

That's QPR and Reading dead for me, I'm starting to fancy Sunderland for the other spot.

 

[Pandy]

Criticisms of Redknapp have usually centred around his lack of financial control. With a strong chairman in Levy, this was prevented. He has just had several chairman willing to give him limitless funds regardless of whether the club could afford to do so. Most fans of ex-Redknapp clubs hate him for helping to put them in terrible financial situations.

As a manager he is pretty capable. I think QPR stand a decent chance of survival considering where they are in the league. They were bright against Villa and won their 2 previous games and will definitely pick up points in the run in, but 7 points is a huge deficit to overturn, even for Houdini.

EDIT: In fact, call it 8 because I think with Wigan's run-in and Martinez's history, they will probably stay up. No doubt with help from 3 points against us...

 

[skyfarer]

 

[paxtonwolf]

That's QPR and Reading dead for me, I'm starting to fancy Sunderland for the other spot.

Totally agree.

Cant remember who is Wigans game in hand, but if they win it and reach 30pts then everbody from Stoke down is in the mix.
Stoke are currently bottom of the 2013 points table I believe with 5pts since Jan 1st, but its Sunderland for me who look in danger

 

[Denmark Spur]

Sunderland have not won in their last 7 and face Man Utd, Chelsea and Saudi Sportswashing Machine in their next three games.

They will be right in the relegation dogfight after those matches.

Watched their game yesterday and eventhough they played 50 mins against 10, they were absolutely dreadful.

Could be quite a game in matchweek 38. Spurs in need of points to get top 4 and Sunderland in need of points to avoid relegation.

 

[Jordinho]

Quite a few teams in the bottom half on terrible runs at the moment. It's like they don't want to win games.

Aston Villa: 3 wins in last 5, compared to 4 wins in the first 25 matches.

Fulham: One more win should see them safe.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine: A glorious 8 away points so far this season. Their home game against Sunderland is the key. Win that and they're safe. Only other game they might get something from is Fulham at home.

Norwich: 1 win in their last 13. Have got home games against Swansea, Reading, Aston Villa and West Brom. Should just about make it.

QPR: Can see another 3 or 4 wins for them (Wigan(H), Saudi Sportswashing Machine(H), Reading(A), Stoke(H)), but it will probably not be enough.

Reading: Doomed. 5 away points is just laughable.

Southampton: West Ham (H) and Reading (A) should mean 4 points, then they finish the season with Sunderland (A) and Stoke(H). Think they'll make it.

Stoke: 1 win in their last 10 and 13 draws so far this season. Can see a couple away draws and a win against either Aston Villa (H) or Norwich (H)

Sunderland: Had a good run in December/January with 4 wins in 6, but it's been 3 wins from their other 24 games. Currently 7 games without a win and all MON teams tend to switch off towards the end of the season. Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa away and Stoke and Southampton at home are the games they have to pick up something from.

West Ham: Still to play West Brom, Wigan, Reading and Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home. The latter two are definitive wins. Will reach the 40 points mark without much trouble.

Wigan: Slightly ahead of where they were last season, but the winnable games are getting fewer. Only 13 points at home this season, but Norwich and Villa still to come.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I'm still shocked at how little respect Redknapp gets on this forum. Appalling.

QPR are down, they were already down when he took over. Financially I am sure he earned well out of it, but from a footballing decision point of view he was mad taking the job.