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Putin & Russia

Jordinho said:
No, he's just playing 4D chess. Here's something he shared on his social network:

Many of you probably watched what took place between Donald Trump and Zelenskyy tonight. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you might be thinking to yourself, Oh my GHod, Donald Trump just screwed up.
However, let’s look at the difference between what you believe you witnessed and what actually happened.
Donald Trump has been under constant political persecution since the beginning of his first term. Over time, he has learned to be patient and calculated.
Tonight, Zelenskyy was invited to the Oval Office. However, both Trump and JD Vance knew exactly what Zelenskyy was going to do—he would use this opportunity, in front of the American people, to make a power play. Both Trump and Vance anticipated this.
When Zelenskyy began appealing to the emotions of the American people, JD Vance stepped in, accusing him of disrespecting Donald Trump. This was brilliant strategy. It’s important to understand that Zelenskyy is trying to gain access to NATO.
Trump knew this but could not allow it to happen. If Ukraine joins NATO, the U.S. would be bound by NATO’s collective defense agreement—an attack on one is an attack on all.
Now consider the larger implications: Ukraine and Russia despise each other. If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, any future skirmish between them would obligate the U.S. to enter into direct conflict with Russia. This would mean World War III. And if that happened, China would have to choose a side—they would almost certainly align with Russia.
So what you witnessed tonight was a setup. Trump and JD Vance knew that the only way to achieve peace was to strategically align, at least on the surface, with Russia. Why? Because Russia would never sign a peace treaty if Ukraine were admitted into NATO.
This is why Trump dismantled Zelenskyy’s argument. And when Zelenskyy, seeing his play failing, tried to backtrack and offer a treaty, Trump refused.
Zelenskyy’s real intent was clear—he would not agree to peace unless security guarantees were in place. But what was he actually saying? That NATO must accept Ukraine. However, Russia would never agree to peace, knowing that NATO, their historical adversary, would surround them.
Zelenskyy, Putin, and Trump all knew this. Zelenskyy, thinking he had Democrats' support, believed he could make this bold move on live television. But Trump and Vance saw right through it and outmaneuvered him.They knew that, in the short term, Democrats and the media would try to use this moment against them. But they also knew they had two years before midterms to prove their strategy was the right one. So they held their ground—brilliantly so.
Now, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.
By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives—something that would force the U.S. to respond.Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.
Don’t underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he’s 10 moves ahead of everyone.
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Trump probably thinks 4D chess is the catalogue measurements of the tits of his most recent Epstein girl
 
markysimmo said:
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I mean you can be all those things on the left and not be wrong in the subject of the war. I mean we have a massive Neo Nazi-esq issue with the right in the country, they might not have the tattoos but they are equally a clamy and racist

Funny enough America has more Neo Nazi groups than anywhere in the world, tells you something.

The bottom example could be Boris Johnson rule, doesn't mean we deserved to be invaded by Russia
 
Gutter Boy said:
NATO has 31 other members. It'll be a bit like the EU after Brexit. America will be back next time they get a sane president too
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True but the US is the backbone. It has an outsized role in NATO compared to all the others. The comparison to brexit doesn't describe it accurately as the single market and customs union work fine without the UK. The US supplies most of the NATO logistics, the intelligence, the communication and coordination, and the leadership. It is more like a football team without its captain, coach, physios, the team bus, the kit and the footballs. You still have some players but can't really function as a team anymore. These capabilities need to be replaced somehow if the US exit, and it looks likely they will.
 
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For years now, young working class men have been totally disregarded and undermined in this country.

There are numerous examples but I will use a simple one.... Liberal academics decided that competeitive sport should be removed from schools because it suited them. Not everyone is 'clever' and sport is a way for young men to feel good about themselves bit they didn't care....

Now, we might need ' more boots on the ground' in Ukraine as thd Army has been allowed to slowly diminish.... And guess who the woke elite will want to do that?? That's right, the working class that they otherwise hold in contempt...

I am 64 so I dint think they will ask me to spend 6 months in a frozen field in Ukraine but if they did I would use good old 'working class' language to let them know exactly what I think of 'em....
 
NLS said:
For years now, young working class men have been totally disregarded and undermined in this country.

There are numerous examples but I will use a simple one.... Liberal academics decided that competeitive sport should be removed from schools because it suited them. Not everyone is 'clever' and sport is a way for young men to feel good about themselves bit they didn't care....

Now, we might need ' more boots on the ground' in Ukraine as thd Army has been allowed to slowly diminish.... And guess who the woke elite will want to do that?? That's right, the working class that they otherwise hold in contempt...

I am 64 so I dint think they will ask me to spend 6 months in a frozen field in Ukraine but if they did I would use good old 'working class' language to let them know exactly what I think of 'em....
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Not totally true. Non-competitive sport was offered/promoted to try and maintain engagement levels as competitive sport was found to be putting young people off. It wasn't a 'liberal elite' concept but an attempt to maintain health and active lifestyles. Some schools couldn't afford to run competitive and non-competitive sports separately had to choose, for budget reasons and also due to losing playing fields etc, and went with mass participation.
 
Lost Mango said:
Not totally true. Non-competitive sport was offered/promoted to try and maintain engagement levels as competitive sport was found to be putting young people off. It wasn't a 'liberal elite' concept but an attempt to maintain health and active lifestyles. Some schools couldn't afford to run competitive and non-competitive sports separately had to choose, for budget reasons and also due to losing playing fields etc, and went with mass participation.
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Yeah, I think the privatisation of schools (academies) and selling off of playing fields for housing has been a far far bigger factor.
 
Rorschach said:
True but the US is the backbone. It has an outsized role in NATO compared to all the others. The comparison to brexit doesn't describe it accurately as the single market and customs union work fine without the UK. The US supplies most of the NATO logistics, the intelligence, the communication and coordination, and the leadership. It is more like a football team without its captain, coach, physios, the team bus, the kit and the footballs. You still have some players but can't really function as a team anymore. These capabilities need to be replaced somehow if the US exit, and it looks likely they will.
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Europe doesn’t have to express global dominance to maintain its markets like the us does.
We only really need to be able to defend ourselves. It’s a trifle compared to the US which needs to protect its hegemony around the world not least in and around Asia.

US intelligence doesn’t seem to help much.
 
NLS said:
There are numerous examples but I will use a simple one.... Liberal academics decided that competeitive sport should be removed from schools because it suited them. Not everyone is 'clever' and sport is a way for young men to feel good about themselves bit they didn't care....
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I don't see that...
My daughter is now at secondary school.

The boys are playing school matches vs other schools most weeks in football, rugby, x-country etc...and that's before you get to the club sides they play for at the weekend.

The biggest hindrance to activity take up and engagement is screens.

I do agree, Sport is a massive positive in anyone's life (especially team sports).
 
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Rorschach said:
True but the US is the backbone. It has an outsized role in NATO compared to all the others. The comparison to brexit doesn't describe it accurately as the single market and customs union work fine without the UK. The US supplies most of the NATO logistics, the intelligence, the communication and coordination, and the leadership. It is more like a football team without its captain, coach, physios, the team bus, the kit and the footballs. You still have some players but can't really function as a team anymore. These capabilities need to be replaced somehow if the US exit, and it looks likely they will.
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Yes, we will have to step up and do all that...simply because to carry on working with Trump is unbearable. (and tbh risky)
 
johnola said:
Europe doesn’t have to express global dominance to maintain its markets like the us does.
We only really need to be able to defend ourselves. It’s a trifle compared to the US which needs to protect its hegemony around the world not least in and around Asia.

US intelligence doesn’t seem to help much.
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Yes, certainly on a smaller scale but capabilities supplied by the US will need to be duplicated if they leave. No one questioned the top dog status of US considering what they were bringing to the party, but this hierarchy will be thrown into chaos if and when they depart. The European leaders need to sort that out and quickly if some European version of NATO is the desired solution. And they certainly need to break dependence on US military hardware and procure from European sources. I'm sure they can figure it all out in time, but time is short.

What do you mean about US intelligence?
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Yeah, I think the privatisation of schools (academies) and selling off of playing fields for housing has been a far far bigger factor.
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All the schools round our way still have lots of school playing fields.

My son went to private school in Chichester and they would play state schools at Rugby and football when they had teams and those state schools would have good facilities.

Often when I was watching I would talk with the dads from the other schools they said the school having sports teams was more to do with whether the PE teachers were prepared to give up their free time unpaid to run them, you can't blame them when they did not.

So for me it was not about the nasty governments selling off school playing fields but rather how the schools allocated funding through the school. Now I don't actually mind to much the not being competitive sport, being a Spurs fan the last thing I think football should be is competitive but that is after 50 odd years of supporting this club.

But from my experience the state schools had the facilities. Though I know with out you having to reply where you are the schools had the pitches sold so the tories could get more money for house building, I even heard a rumour that Maggie Thatcher was going round schools and after she took kids milk and poured it down the drain she was frigging herself off on tennis rackets and then breaking them when she was done.

She really was a mad fascist bitch though.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Yes, we will have to step up and do all that...simply because to carry on working with Trump is unbearable. (and tbh risky)
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Rorschach said:
Yes, certainly on a smaller scale but capabilities supplied by the US will need to be duplicated if they leave. No one questioned the top dog status of US considering what they were bringing to the party, but this hierarchy will be thrown into chaos if and when they depart. The European leaders need to sort that out and quickly if some European version of NATO is the desired solution. And they certainly need to break dependence on US military hardware and procure from European sources. I'm sure they can figure it all out in time, but time is short.

What do you mean about US intelligence?
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Unless Trump turns the US into a Dictatorship - I'm sure Putin would call him a genius - it would take longer to develop Europe's capabilities than the 4 year presidential tenure. We'll get a new US president before Europe is armed and ready.

But it does feel like this heralds a new era where Europe has to develop it own defence. Ironically, the winners will be China and India. They'll continue their development, while the rest of the world enters a new post cold war militarisation.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
All the schools round our way still have lots of school playing fields.

My son went to private school in Chichester and they would play state schools at Rugby and football when they had teams and those state schools would have good facilities.

Often when I was watching I would talk with the dads from the other schools they said the school having sports teams was more to do with whether the PE teachers were prepared to give up their free time unpaid to run them, you can't blame them when they did not.

So for me it was not about the nasty governments selling off school playing fields but rather how the schools allocated funding through the school. Now I don't actually mind to much the not being competitive sport, being a Spurs fan the last thing I think football should be is competitive but that is after 50 odd years of supporting this club.

But from my experience the state schools had the facilities. Though I know with out you having to reply where you are the schools had the pitches sold so the tories could get more money for house building, I even heard a rumour that Maggie Thatcher was going round schools and after she took kids milk and poured it down the drain she was frigging herself off on tennis rackets and then breaking them when she was done.

She really was a mad fascist bitch though.
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Here is a list of the amount of school playing fields sold off by previous governments. According to The Daily Telegraph:
  • The Conservative government between 1979 and 1997 sold off around 10,000 playing fields.
  • The Labour government between 1997 and 2010 sold off 226 fields.
  • Between May 18, 2010 and July 22, 2012, the coalition government received 35 applications to sell school playing fields - 30 were approved.
Labour set-up an independent panel in 1999 to slow down the sale of school playing fields.


there are approximately 29,000 schools so 10,000 is a fair wedge.

(but would also agree that a lot of it comes down to staffing as you say as any sport beyond the basic PE expectation is done on staff goodwill rather than funding)
 
I love the fact loads of patriotic Farage parrots saying that Ukraine should surrender because its a pointless war. From the country that gave us the Falklands and the same people crying over giving back those Islands in the Indian Ocean.....

It's so transparently sheepish to follow these people
 
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Danishfurniturelover said:
All the schools round our way still have lots of school playing fields.

My son went to private school in Chichester and they would play state schools at Rugby and football when they had teams and those state schools would have good facilities.

Often when I was watching I would talk with the dads from the other schools they said the school having sports teams was more to do with whether the PE teachers were prepared to give up their free time unpaid to run them, you can't blame them when they did not.

So for me it was not about the nasty governments selling off school playing fields but rather how the schools allocated funding through the school. Now I don't actually mind to much the not being competitive sport, being a Spurs fan the last thing I think football should be is competitive but that is after 50 odd years of supporting this club.

But from my experience the state schools had the facilities. Though I know with out you having to reply where you are the schools had the pitches sold so the tories could get more money for house building, I even heard a rumour that Maggie Thatcher was going round schools and after she took kids milk and poured it down the drain she was frigging herself off on tennis rackets and then breaking them when she was done.

She really was a mad fascist bitch though.
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Takes me back - I used to play rugby and football against Chichester High
 
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