Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
He voted leave, then purchased a house in Spain?
Then, as in after?
I can’t even...
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
He voted leave, then purchased a house in Spain?
Then, as in after?
I can’t even...
That's why populism works. People are dumb as brick.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
I know a staunch leaver that voted based on immigrants taking low skilled jobs away from Brits.....just got sacked and is now considering moving to a Spanish island to be a cabby!
StephenH
David Ginola
And you are being very kind!
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Wasn't there a poster on here saying soon after the vote that even with his vote for Brexit, this country was going to the dogs and he was going to go to Spain to setup a bar?
Hey look if the leader of UKIP was suggesting a Norway model (where we have less sovrignity and BINO), and almost no politicians foresaw the problem in Ireland, is it any wonder people didn't fully understand the implications of Brexit? We still don't know what it will be, and how it will shake down in detail. But we know enough about the economics and the broad principles, to know it aint a good idea. That is unless you're entrenched in dogma, have put all your chips on leave, so you can't rationalise what is now obvious.
All credit to those who are big enough to stand up and do something quite difficult - say I called wrong. All credit to them.
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SpurMeUp
Les Howe
By conincidence, as you posted this the TImes ran with a headline about the UK heading into a recession. But that wasn't your point, nor should it be, because as things stand we are still trading and working freely with the EU. Come March that may not be the case; if so that is when the zhit could hit the fan. If our government doesn't seek to extend article 50, then we couldwell see UK degrowth under a no deal exit.
If we don't get a deal with our biggest trading partner - the EU where most of trade come from and goes to - then of course it will affect the UK economy. It's obvious isn't it? The pound would likely fall further and more enterprise would steadily move away from the UK to maintain free access to the single market. Do you agree with that logic? No one as yet has outlined how we would get new trade to replace the lost trade however.
The other point to consider is the jobs and companies that have already gone because of the impending possibility of brexit. Sony moving its HQ from London to Amsterdam won't cause recession, but surely you can appreciate it as writing on the wall? Brexit is a real probalem for a lot of businesses. Dyson has moved its HQ out of the UK. Airbus have said they will up sticks. All car firms would be fudged. A number of banks have moved billions in trasnactions and a number of people into the EU. When Leave campaigners said, 'not one job will be lost due to Brexit' we can say with complete certainty that it was not true. Do you agree? The other thing we know to have been false was that negotiation a deal with the EU would be simple and we'd hold equal cards, someting I remember @parklane1 saying. Care to do the decent thing and hold up ones hands and admit that wasn't the case?
Not building the new Nissan in Sunderland won't cause recessino today. But if the 7,000 working class people who make Nissan cars lose their jobs, there would be a local recession. Who would be to blame for the loss of their livelihoods? I know it might be hard stomach, but could it possibly be Brexit itself? Or would you say it is May not doing a good job, or the EU because they 'punished us'? Anything but hallowed Brexit, which must be upheld, despite no one being able to outline how it should work or what the end goal should look like for the UK.
The sooner people wake up to the reality, the less harm the UK will suffer. One thing is for sure, our current political leaders (may corbyn) are not prepared or able to outline the importance of these issues to people, so somehow, people need to make these realisations themselves.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Most 'centrists' are Tories pursuing neo liberal economic policies, who throw an identity bone to the masses. "Oh yeah, well I have cut real wages for workers, but ahem I do support gay marriage you know." That type of thing.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
Fair point, I’m just struggling to tie together the logic of voting leave then moving to remain.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Recession can be is a positive indicator if your population is under control. Growth is just a measure of destruction. That the Ponzi scheme is still functioning
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
So are Leave voters! But it makes sense ok. Pre-vote it was a vote for a better UK, now we know it won't deliver that. And the immigration impications of Brexit, that were so central, could well see a less white Britian with immigration just shifting from the EU to further a field, indeed that's what has happened thus far.
So the logic for voting leave was there, and there is absolute logic to change to remain if your ego can take it.
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SpurMeUp
Les Howe
What do you reply to GB?
GB are you living on a commune in Wales? Growing your veg, washing your socks in the brook? If so jobs, life, the capitalist system has the rest of us in its grasp still and its probably too late for us, we need its riches and goods. Credit to you for stepping outside it.
Is the point you're trying to make is that Brexit hasn't / won't had a negative economic impact?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Are you asking whether the phenomenon of economic recession in other nations is caused by the UK's intention to exit the EU? Isn't it obvious that recession in another nation will have multipule factors associated with it, most of which are not related the UK?
The issue with such simple logic is its so focused on proving Brexit is good (or at aleast not bad) over and above understanding the big picture. You cherry pick something you think backs up your aguement but fail to grasp the overall reality. Brexit is that complex you'll always be able to isolate something to prove your argument. What I am asking for is to weigh up multiple facts and logic and then make a ballanced judgment.
- Pre-vote the UK was one of the fastest growing developed economies.
- Post vote it droped to one of the slowest.
- While our growth tanked the EUs growth exceeded ours.
Or if you want to talk specific examples, look at car manufacturing in the UK.
- In 2015, car manufacturers invested £2.5bn in the UK.
- Since then it has fallen ever year and in 2018 was just £589m.
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Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I mean moving physical location to stay in the EU.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Oh I see. That's pretty funny
But a symptom of people not understanding it. And when the political classes who's jobs were to campaign for in/out didn't fully understand all the implications, is it any wonder peope who have a life to live, didn't fully understand it either? On top of that, imagine if you've read about the stupid EU for 20 years in your biased Murdoch paper, and been lied to about eu money and immigration. All things considered it is a very logical vote to leave - with that kind of rhetoric around you.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
Oh I see. That's pretty funny
No it’s not, still frustrating and disappointing though.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Amazing isnt it, project fear has now been going for 3 years, yet if opinion polls are to be believed the leave vote is still in the 40% area. I wonder if people keep trotting out the people did not vote to make themselves poorer line because they know the is no moral justification for remaining in. Although if opinion polls are to be believed then a fair amount decided to vote for things other then just economics, like they do in general elections.
So it seems to me the are a lot of extremists on the remain side. A few to be fair on the leave side, but when you look how quickly the UKIP vote dropped off at the last election, it becomes clear that leave were not extremists, they did not rush to the BNP. They just wanted out so they could choose governments that can actually govern without the of the EU looming over them.
I think most of us realised the would be a short term hit on economic outlook but a long term gain. It has not exactly insulated the Italian or Greek economies, and now banks in Germany and France are talking of recessions. But how can this be in the wonderful EU that stops any economic hardship.
The remain lot have done well to turn this into a left versus right debate, because on the whole the right has an image problem that the Guardian, Independent and BBC love to play up to. But as Corbyn showed when talking in his video about the Irish vote on Lisbon the other week, the left the true left would always be against the EU as well.
Did not agree with all his views https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/17/exit-europe-from-the-left But it is well worth reading a bit of Bob Crow and people like Benn to see how we would be better off out of the EU. If we ever come out of the EU do people really think we will lurch to the right which is clearly what some on the left are concerned of. UKIP disappeared after the last election and Labour focusing on social issues shot up.
The same would happen again if we left the EU, if the tories want to stay in power they have to move to the centre or they dont stand a chance, when Labour go to the left they pick up votes. Far from being a conservative country we are quite liberal(to our credit) the BNP and far right never make inroads at general elections as they do in many other European countries.
Leaving the EU was never about going right wing or some nostalgic flimflam about the "empire" it was about being an outward looking trading nation making laws to suit itself and deciding how it should be governed. The world is a big place but thanks to technology getting smaller, why limit yourself to one small part of it.
Because of how some extremists have acted in this very thread I have had to block them, I dont want to see the pathetic hatred and drivel every time I come in here and I would suggest @parklane1 you do the same old friend. When I read posters saying that people who voted leave were to thick and stupid and should not be allowed the vote, I was dismayed to see they not get bans. I have never run a website but it seems odd that people can post such things and not receive a ban in a moderate public setting(this website is public) Sure people should be entitled to their own opinions, but that seemed over the line to me or acceptable behaviour and I am sure would have resulted in bans had it been the other way around.
If you have any worries for the future, dont old friend, I have a family member who works in the law and I was relieved to be told about how many deals are being done with out countries for trade deals to be put into place when we leave. She has been working all over the world the last year doing ground work for it. Of course no one has to believe this and can think I am just embellishing things to get my point across. But I am not, the rest of the world are really keen to do trade deals with a country that has always been a trading country.
A few companies looking to set up business in Europe will not hurt us, I guess the bosses worried about their supply to cheap labour and extra profits and the bigger bonuses that came with it are looking to stoke the fire in the extremist remainers hearts. But I think even the tories and labour agree now, that Business should look to invest in people and the country and not just constantly take out.
So to finish, this thread can be an interesting read, but if I were you @parklane1 I would do what I have done and block and ignore some of the extremist posters, I believe in democracy, so they have their right to their views if they do not go over the line into hatred and bullying(which they sadly do at times) but I just dont need to read their vile crap.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Which is why someone like me who would be considered centre right will be voting for Corbyn. He is the only one offering something radical, not all my cup of tea, but he ticks more boxed then the others.
Do not follow politics deeply enough but I am desperate for someone to come through with different ideas.
Not sure why we have not had anyone come up with quite simple things like a cross party working committee with the aim of us getting all our energy needs from renewable energy sources by the year 2030. Whey we have not come up with a plan to become mainly food secure by 2030, some say it can not be done but the are great advances in vertical farming.
Why do we still allow properties be brought by overseas investors to try and make a quick buck, we are a small island, homes should be for people to live in. If you are British or African it does not matter but you should be able to buy here if you are working here, but to allow overseas investors to just try and make a quick buck out of the country does not feel like a country looking after its own.
Why are we not putting more money and energy into modern apprenticeships and vocational training rather then perpetuating the myth that everyone must go to university, usually to do something as important as study one of the pointless orlgy courses.
I want to see someone come through with new and interesting ideas.