Politics, politics, politics

[Gutter Boy]

So, Raab's speech to Tory Conference just now:

"Don't listen to people warning against no-deal Brexit, that's just PROJECT FEAR!"

"And we mustn't let Corbyn's Labour take power because that'd be SCARY!"

He's crystallised right-wing thought quite well.

But that's all remain has been for 40 years too, other than a few years when Blair fancied being President of Europe and played with a vision of a British-run EU.

The first young charismatic politician to come along with a message of hope for post-Brexit Britain, of whatever political colour, is going get a massive landslide.

 

[Gutter Boy]

So there isn't anythng positive you can outline to Brexit, just what you don't like now? Free trade and liberalism was not invented by Regan.

Positives about Brexit
- Stronger democracy
- Economic localism replacing globalisation
- Rebalanced economic - away from finance and the south-east
- Renationalisation and cancelling PPPs
- Planned infrastructure projects (including food and green energy self-sufficiency)
- Immigration determined by skill, not race
- Population check reduces pressure on public services and housing

 

[Gutter Boy]

Do the UK do Reaganomics more than the majority of EU members, are we the most Reaganite? I would suggest if we are (and we probably are) there is something we could do about it within the EU if we chose.

Competition laws, state aid and tendering rules are hardwired into the EU. It overrules any democratic decision our electorate can make in a general election

 

[the dza]

But that's all remain has been for 40 years too, other than a few years when Blair fancied being President of Europe and played with a vision of a British-run EU.

The first young charismatic politician to come along with a message of hope for post-Brexit Britain, of whatever political colour, is going get a massive landslide.

That wasn't really my point -- my point was that the right of the Tory Party are screaming "Project Fear!" when it comes to leaving the EU on their terms, but without any irony, evoking "Project Fear!" when it comes to a left-wing government.

"Don't listen to their fear, but listen to mine!"

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

Competition laws, state aid and tendering rules are hardwired into the EU. It overrules any democratic decision our electorate can make in a general election

I know a bit about public sector procurement. What area of EU competition law and tendering rules is incompatible with anything you'd like to see government do?

 

[Grays_1890]

You're in Grays still? Was there no one around you voicing that opinion? I know when visiting family and friends in basildon it was probably the majority view, not idiots either just hearing the parts they wanted

I do live in Grays, being honest yeh you hear the odd comment from a local kn0b head but all in all most of the people I speak to and hear from say they want more structure to immigration not an end to it.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Competition laws, state aid and tendering rules are hardwired into the EU. It overrules any democratic decision our electorate can make in a general election

No it doesn't ... again other countries within the EU manage to work within the confines we chose to be the way we are and its lazy blaming the EU for all our (perceived) woes.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I know a bit about public sector procurement. What area of EU competition law and tendering rules is incompatible with anything you'd like to see government do?

He's been shown before that tendering rules do not have to be lowest price but can be aimed towards other outcomes, he choses to ignore it and wait a few weeks and bring it up again.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I do live in Grays, being honest yeh you hear the odd comment from a local kn0b head but all in all most of the people I speak to and hear from say they want more structure to immigration not an end to it.

Not questioning what you are saying just surprised by it as it doesn't match my experiences in a similar location.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Positives about Brexit
- Stronger democracy
- Economic localism replacing globalisation
- Rebalanced economic - away from finance and the south-east
- Renationalisation and cancelling PPPs
- Planned infrastructure projects (including food and green energy self-sufficiency)
- Immigration determined by skill, not race
- Population check reduces pressure on public services and housing

Underlined have no relevance to Brexit do they? Can be done in or out and is very unlikely to happen under Brexit.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not questioning what you are saying just surprised by it as it doesn't match my experiences in a similar location.

How many people did you speak to out of the 180,000 or so from Basildon to come up with your Insight

 

[r-u-s-x]

Enough considering the insight was there are some people who voted to stop immigration wouldnt you think.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I know a bit about public sector procurement. What area of EU competition law and tendering rules is incompatible with anything you'd like to see government do?

Full and permanent renationalisation of railways, buses, water and council services. The EU only allows state-owned franchises to bid for periodic tenders

Local energy collectives where towns/cities/regions can go off grid if they can generate and store their own renewable energy. The EU wouldn't allow monopolies like that, it would demand the big 6 have to have market access

Immediate banning of the sale of new diesel cars. VW would sue the government's arse off if it tried that in the EU

 

[r-u-s-x]

Full and permanent renationalisation of railways, buses, water and council services. The EU only allows state-owned franchises to bid for periodic tenders

Local energy collectives where towns/cities/regions can go off grid if they can generate and store their own renewable energy. The EU wouldn't allow monopolies like that, it would demand the big 6 have to have market access

Immediate banning of the sale of new diesel cars. VW would sue the government's arse off if it tried that in the EU

some cities in the EU have banned diesel cars (including Germany) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles

I would think that means we could ban them if we wanted to but chose not to, you have anything to the contrary?

(https://www.ft.com/content/f6168d12-2792-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0 seems to show we can bring it forward)

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

Full renationalisation of railways, buses, water and council services. The EU only allows state-owned franchises to bid for tenders

Local energy collectives where towns/cities/regions can go off grid if they can generate and store their own energy. The EU wouldn't allow monopolies like that, it would demand the big 6 have to have market access

Immediate banning of the sale of new diesel cars. VW would sue the government's arse off if it tried that in the EU

I'm absolutely sure that the first two aren't accurate. Why do you believe this?

On the last, as the owner of a 2014 Euro 5 Diesel which I bought last year, and now discover will be effectively worthless in London from 2021, I'd have sympathy with all actors who worked against an immediate ban like that. Sadly, EU law hasn't stopped various municipalities from pulling this trick.

 

[Robspur12]

In lobbying for businesses he speaks to the owners/directors of hundreds, if not thousands of them. When he speaks for UK business, he does so as someone who is better placed than any to speak on our behalf.

He doesn't speak for UK business though. I believe his position was different to the CBI's position pre brexit.

Although he listens to hundreds of businesses he still forms his own opinion having presumably heard many divergent views. That is not the same as navigating brexit directly as a business such a the Innocent man does as do hundreds of other small businesses dealing with European businesses.

Making those sweeping claims about how easy it would be to get a deal after brexit kind of destroys his credibility for me. Digby Jones is just another fat cat who loves the sound of his voice.

 

[Gutter Boy]

some cities in the EU have banned diesel cars (including Germany) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles

I would think that means we could ban them if we wanted to but chose not to, you have anything to the contrary?

(https://www.ft.com/content/f6168d12-2792-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0 seems to show we can bring it forward)

It's being done in the neoliberal way though. Hurt the people, protect the companies. In fact banning the use rather than sale is a great capitalist opportunity to make the people buy even more crap they don't need

I was quite specific in my wording - ban the sale of new diesel cars. I wouldn't touch/punish any that were already on the road - i.e. mechanisms that would hurt people. You go after the corporate overlords instead - the ones the EU protects.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

I was quite specific in my wording - ban the sale of new diesel cars. I wouldn't touch/punish any that were already on the road - i.e. mechanisms that would hurt people. You go after the corporate overlords instead.

A ban that applied in a few years would have much less impact on automotive industry jobs and would mean that current stock could be sold, which would reduce some grotesque waste.

It's not just posters on message boards who suggest horribly impractical panaceas, to be fair: law quite often protects politicians from themselves.

I wouldn't touch/punish any that were already on the road - i.e. mechanisms that would hurt people.

Indeed. Couldn't agree more. Bastard Khan.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It's being done in the neoliberal way though. Hurt the people, protect the companies. In fact banning the use rather than sale is a great capitalist opportunity to make the people buy even more crap they don't need

I was quite specific in my wording - ban the sale of new diesel cars. I wouldn't touch/punish any that were already on the road - i.e. mechanisms that would hurt people. You go after the corporate overlords instead - the ones the EU protects.

did you see the FT article where they are discussing banning the sale of new diesel cars and bringing the date forwards- no mention of EU preventing this.

 

[Gutter Boy]

A ban that applied in a few years would have much less impact on automotive industry jobs and would mean that current stock could be sold, which would reduce some grotesque waste.

It's not just posters on message boards who suggest horribly impractical panaceas, to be fair: law quite often protects politicians from themselves.

VW out of pocket, or all the extra deaths caused by particulates?

Especially as they we're actively fiddling the emissions test, when the rest of the world's manufacturers (US/Japan) had long been moving away from diesel because they recognised the problem