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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
You are missing the point.
Yes, we need to adhere to a standard, I get it.
I then go on to ask, what are the chances of us dropping our standards such that it would be an issue? Its not an issue today, and having seen the standard of driving elsewhere Im confident in saying theres little chance of our standards dropping below other EU nations any time soon.
So yes, in the unlikely event they do, we may have a problem.
But, as Scara points out - everybody is well aware of it and so it wouldnt happen by accident.
Its a non issue now and likely to be a non issue in perpetuity, just fudging deal with it and move onto more pressing things. Its not a drama.
milo
Jack L. Jones
How do you keep them aligned? How do you demonstrate they are aligned? How do you deal with disputes?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I’ve read that too, might also have been Jo Maugham.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I don't think so, I think it was an academic, he might've linked to it though.
Neither of us has to, there's an IDP for that.
Not having aligned standards isn't something that's just being discovered by the UK and the EU, it's how trade has happened the world over since people started to wonder what might be the other side of that big fudging bit of water. People know it's there, they deal with it and then life carries on.
milo
Jack L. Jones
That's fine as long as people know what they are getting themselves into.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
There has been a lot of that in this thread over the last few months.
No it's you that's missing the point
As @milo
Asked:
How do you keep them aligned? How do you demonstrate they are aligned? How do you deal with disputes?
Also one way of dealing with it is agreeing to adhere to EU regulations. You don't want to do that? fine... thats within your rights. But the EU is perfectly within there rights to turn around and say that because you don't want to do that, then they won't accept you driving in the EU with a licence that is not Allienced with their standards.
That's only looking at exports. Someone whose opinion I put a lot of value in once told me that turnover is a dingdong waving contest, profits are what keep the Gucci suits flowing.
To assess the impact to the entire economy we need to look at the savings on imports, the huge reduction in costs for those who don't already trade with the EU (over 85% of our GDP), the ability to compete with the EU with reduced tax and regulation the way Luxembourg does.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Turnover is vanity profit is sanity. Not sure this can be applied to GDP. Certain that imports would not become cheaper:
1. Weaker pound with a hard Brexit (currently 10-15% down on pre vote)
2. We have tariff free imports with the EU now, if we put zero tariffs on all imports it has to be the world over under WTO terms. Doing so would kill so much of our industry. We wouldn’t produce steel, all the Tata jobs in Wales would go. We wouldn’t grow any food, and would become reliant on imports to feed the nation. Far more likely we’d have tariffs too to protect these jobs and industries- in which case imports would be more expensive, not cheaper.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
milo
Jack L. Jones
What savings on imports? EU tariffs are low by world standards and the majority of our imports are on zero tariffs.
That's only on items originating in the EU. Items imported to the EU have tariffs. You also need to take into account the inflationary effect of protectionist tarrifs. Whilst we may not pay any tariff to import from the EU, I guarantee the cost is higher than from China, Africa, etc.
We can't compete the way Luxembourg do, the EU already ruled on competitive tax regulations. Luxembourg will soon lose its ability to as well if it wants to stay in the EU.
So, a couple of interesting things from this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...never-accept-eus-ideas-on-irish-brexit-border
In a speech in Belfast on Friday she is expected to brand the bloc’s calls for regulatory alignment north and south of the border as a “backstop” solution in the event of no deal as “unworkable”, and repeat her assertion that a border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable to any British prime minister.
“The economic and constitutional dislocation of a formal ‘third country’ customs border within our own country is something I will never accept, and I believe no British prime minister could ever accept,” she will say.
_____________
I'm reading that as May saying that regulations in N.Ireland have to be the same as the rest of the UK. Right? That's what I take from the last sentence there.
Further in the article:
Her opposition to a border in the Irish sea was cemented on Monday when a last- minute amendment to the customs bill, tabled by the Labour MP Kate Hoey, was nodded through making it illegal to have a barrier between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
_____________
So there 100% will not be a barrier between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK. And May will not accept a different economic/regulatory set-up for N.Ireland as opposed to the rest of the UK. What options does that leave, to square the circle?
The EU side will surely suggest EEA + Customs Union. Otherwise, it's hard brexit and a hard border (which, iirc, there has to be under WTO rules, I'm sure I read that somewhere). But then is that not illegal under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement? (I could be wrong there too).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...never-accept-eus-ideas-on-irish-brexit-border
In a speech in Belfast on Friday she is expected to brand the bloc’s calls for regulatory alignment north and south of the border as a “backstop” solution in the event of no deal as “unworkable”, and repeat her assertion that a border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable to any British prime minister.
“The economic and constitutional dislocation of a formal ‘third country’ customs border within our own country is something I will never accept, and I believe no British prime minister could ever accept,” she will say.
_____________
I'm reading that as May saying that regulations in N.Ireland have to be the same as the rest of the UK. Right? That's what I take from the last sentence there.
Further in the article:
Her opposition to a border in the Irish sea was cemented on Monday when a last- minute amendment to the customs bill, tabled by the Labour MP Kate Hoey, was nodded through making it illegal to have a barrier between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
_____________
So there 100% will not be a barrier between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK. And May will not accept a different economic/regulatory set-up for N.Ireland as opposed to the rest of the UK. What options does that leave, to square the circle?
The EU side will surely suggest EEA + Customs Union. Otherwise, it's hard brexit and a hard border (which, iirc, there has to be under WTO rules, I'm sure I read that somewhere). But then is that not illegal under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement? (I could be wrong there too).
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Like Trump, I'm not sure Corbyn is all that radical when you strip back the pomp. I don't know a lot about him, what is radical about his proposed policies?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Isn't that the Chequers plan? UK-wide regulatory-alignment on just the absolute minimum needed - i.e. goods for export to the EU.
There's already lots of different fiscal arrangements either side of the Irish border - hence why there are no petrol stations in most of Northern Ireland
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Its dead simple, we agree to recognise each, and periodically review standards. Really not that big a deal. You send me your documentation, what you expect of someone to get a licence etc, I see if its good enough for my liking.
Alternatively we simply go with the IDP, set it up online, its really not that big a deal.
But, as with most things, its being made into a bloody epic when it really need not be.
They have deliberately boxed us into options we do not want, which will compromise us. Just as they have taken advantage of weak leadership on our side. (and yes, great defenders of the EU, I get it - all fair love and war and all that yawn).
And needlessly so. They have offered bespoke deals elsewhere, compromised elsewhere, but simply wont entertain it with us.
Yet, strangely, being so closely aligned and already integrated - we would be the ones they really should look to work closely with.
But, of course, they are petty and punitive, and so would rather punish us than make a deal that suits all parties.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Ahh poor UK. EU been nasty?
I thought the EU would be gagging to make deals with us, and this would be simple and easy? Just one of the many Brexit myths which is patently untrue. Replaced now it seems with another myth - if the EU played nice we'd be fine, and that this hamstrung situation is the EUs fault.
How can you leave a club, while cherry picking membership benefits on your way out? Brexit delusions.
I thought the EU would be gagging to make deals with us, and this would be simple and easy? Just one of the many Brexit myths which is patently untrue. Replaced now it seems with another myth - if the EU played nice we'd be fine, and that this hamstrung situation is the EUs fault.
How can you leave a club, while cherry picking membership benefits on your way out? Brexit delusions.