Politics, politics, politics

[glorygloryeze]

The government have to borrow still, something I do not agree with because frankly I am of the opinion we never had the full cuts the country needed or deserved. Pensioners got off very lightly and unfairly so. Who ever had won the last election would have had to borrow, but I bet if Labour had got in it would have been more.

The conservatives do not speak for me, because they are not making the cuts this country need. I posted a few pages back a link from the telegraph about a woman on £60,000 a year getting child tax credits. It is madness, I do not mind low wage earners, shop workers, factory workers etc getting top ups so they can afford to live, but someone on 60 grand a year.

I guess I have to much pride because I could never do it, something inside me would stop me from doing it, self esteem and pride and belief in how an able bodied person who can earn money should behave.

Wish Labour had won in 2008, the country would have been destroyed but maybe a few people would have woken up, also all these tw*ts paying £4.00 for a coffee at train stations could learn to make a brew and take a flask in the mornings.

What do you wish Labour had won in 2008, btw?

 

[glorygloryeze]

@galeforce, Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood is on Question Time right now..

 

[milo]

The government have to borrow still, something I do not agree with because frankly I am of the opinion we never had the full cuts the country needed or deserved. Pensioners got off very lightly and unfairly so. Who ever had won the last election would have had to borrow, but I bet if Labour had got in it would have been more.

The conservatives do not speak for me, because they are not making the cuts this country need. I posted a few pages back a link from the telegraph about a woman on £60,000 a year getting child tax credits. It is madness, I do not mind low wage earners, shop workers, factory workers etc getting top ups so they can afford to live, but someone on 60 grand a year.

I guess I have to much pride because I could never do it, something inside me would stop me from doing it, self esteem and pride and belief in how an able bodied person who can earn money should behave.

Wish Labour had won in 2008, the country would have been destroyed but maybe a few people would have woken up, also all these tw*ts paying £4.00 for a coffee at train stations could learn to make a brew and take a flask in the mornings.

I think that the country was in better hands with Gordon Brown as Prime Minister and Alexander Darling as Chancellor in 2008 than they would have been if Cameron and Osborne were there. The Tories were pledging to match Labour spending plans at that stage and were very slow to react to the financial crisis.

Borrowing to invest during a recession is an economically sound strategy and is supported by the majority of economists. Borrowing is cheap and it lessens the impact of the drop in spending from the private sector.

 

[scaramanga]

Borrowing was not high by historical standards up until the crash. The deficit was built up bailing out the banks and on quantitative easing trying to keep the economy afloat.

We were in an enormous boom, there shouldn't have been any borrowing at all.

 

[milo]

It's quite amazing how the myth of Labour "wrecking the Economy" has been allowed to build up. The proponents of Neo-Liberal Economics have been laughing themselves silly to their bailout cash..

The myth stuck because Labour had a leadership election immediately after the 2010 election and remained silent whilst Osborne set the narrative. The Tories being in a coalition also helped them massively because it meant that the Libdems were repeating the same message and Labour got crowded out.

I don't understand your point about the proponents of neo-liberal economics. If the government had not bailed out the banks then the recession would have been even worse and we'd be in an even greater mess right now.

 

[scaramanga]

I think that the country was in better hands with Gordon Brown as Prime Minister and Alexander Darling as Chancellor in 2008 than they would have been if Cameron and Osborne were there. The Tories were pledging to match Labour spending plans at that stage and were very slow to react to the financial crisis.

Borrowing to invest during a recession is an economically sound strategy and is supported by the majority of economists. Borrowing is cheap and it lessens the impact of the drop in spending from the private sector.

The majority of economists also believe that reining in spending during booms is what makes that spending possible.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The myth stuck because Labour had a leadership election immediately after the 2010 election and remained silent whilst Osborne set the narrative. The Tories being in a coalition also helped them massively because it meant that the Libdems were repeating the same message and Labour got crowded out.

I don't understand your point about the proponents of neo-liberal economics. If the government had not bailed out the banks then the recession would have been even worse and we'd be in an even greater mess right now.

Agreed. My point about the the proponents of Neo-Liberal Economics is that they have been able to hide behind that narrative, whilst being able to "get away with it" largely due to the bailouts (which as you say had to happen as things would have been even worse) whilst Labour have taken the flak instead

 

[glorygloryeze]

We were in an enormous boom, there shouldn't have been any borrowing at all.

When did this boom start, and did the nation have any debts to pay before that time?

 

[milo]

We were in an enormous boom, there shouldn't have been any borrowing at all.

The economy is growing but it is not a boom and growth is certainly not being widely felt.

It is impossible to cut government spending at the rate that you are suggesting and all the signs are that government borrowing is about to go up to try and mitigate against the affects of Brexit.

 

[scaramanga]

The economy is growing but it is not a boom and growth is certainly not being widely felt.

It is impossible to cut government spending at the rate that you are suggesting and all the signs are that government borrowing is about to go up to try and mitigate against the affects of Brexit.

?

I think we're talking at crossed purposes here.

I was suggesting that we should have spent less from 97 until the crash and that would have enabled us to spend during the recession.

I certainly wouldn't call this a boom.

 

[milo]

The majority of economists also believe that reining in spending during booms is what makes that spending possible.

Borrowing during the boom was not high by historical standards. It has been the policy of successive governments to borrow, in the knowledge that inflation reduces the size of the debt over time. What we have seen since the crash is a sustained period of unprecedented zero inflation.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

Wish tories won in 2005 so that they would be blamed for a global crash, even though they showed no need to cut spending (they stated they would match labour) and would be very unlikely to increase regulation on the financial sector.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

What do you wish Labour had won in 2008, btw?

Because they would have had to clear up the mess that they in no small part help create, I do understand the were other issues at play, but after being in power for so long in a boom we should have been far better placed to deal with the fall out. Would have been create to see them try and get out of the mess and all their voters realise that Labour would have had to do cuts. Of course they could have just done what their socialist friends in the IMF told them and then we would have ended up like Greece.

I wanted Labour to win in 2008 because what would have followed would have meant their core vote would desert them for a generation, though Labour putting their head in the sand about immigration all because they thought immigrants would more likely vote for them then the tories meant they have lost their core vote anyway, quite funny when you think about it.

 

[milo]

I think we're talking at crossed purposes here.

I was suggesting that we should have spent less from 97 until the crash and that would have enabled us to spend during the recession.

I certainly wouldn't call this a boom.

Like I said. Labour borrowing during the '90's and early 00's was no higher than Tory borrowing during the 80's and early 90's.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

anyway i am off to bed ladies got any early start tomorrow, off to the horse racing

 

[milo]

Because they would have had to clear up the mess that they in no small part help create, I do understand the were other issues at play, but after being in power for so long in a boom we should have been far better placed to deal with the fall out. Would have been create to see them try and get out of the mess and all their voters realise that Labour would have had to do cuts. Of course they could have just done what their socialist friends in the IMF told them and then we would have ended up like Greece.

I wanted Labour to win in 2008 because what would have followed would have meant their core vote would desert them for a generation, though Labour putting their head in the sand about immigration all because they thought immigrants would more likely vote for them then the tories meant they have lost their core vote anyway, quite funny when you think about it.

How was Labour to blame for the US sub-prime market?

 

[scaramanga]

When did this boom start, and did the nation have any debts to pay before that time?

It kicked in around 99-2000 and continued until the crash.

Of course the nation had debts before that, the idea is that you don't increase them during these booms.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

Of course we should discuss it between elections. I just find it very odd how all the lefties on here moan and cry when the tories come out with something and will not even properly evaluate Corbyn and his mad ideas. For me May and the conservatives have not gone far enough, I used to think it was because they had the Liberals holding them back, but frankly it is because they are just Tony Blair's new Labour.

Is there a huge amount of in fighting in the labour camp at the moment, do you think this indicates that lefties are or are not properly evaluating corbyn.

Is it possible to criticise a party while not agreeing with everything that the other party currently stands for.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Because they would have had to clear up the mess that they in no small part help create, I do understand the were other issues at play, but after being in power for so long in a boom we should have been far better placed to deal with the fall out. Would have been create to see them try and get out of the mess and all their voters realise that Labour would have had to do cuts. Of course they could have just done what their socialist friends in the IMF told them and then we would have ended up like Greece.

I wanted Labour to win in 2008 because what would have followed would have meant their core vote would desert them for a generation, though Labour putting their head in the sand about immigration all because they thought immigrants would more likely vote for them then the tories meant they have lost their core vote anyway, quite funny when you think about it.

Yeah, but win what?

 

[milo]

Is there a huge amount of in fighting in the labour camp at the moment, do you think this indicates that lefties are or are not properly evaluating corbyn.

Is it possible to criticise a party while not agreeing with everything that the other party currently stands for.

It is not just here, the left has failed to articulate a coherent response to the crash in most countries.

Left wing parties succeed when they convince the electorate that they can make things better. Right wing parties succeed when they convince the electorate that the left wing parties are too much of a risk. The left needs a vision that it can sell to the electorate if it wants to hold power again.