Politics, politics, politics

[Bullet]

@scaramanga how do you feel about so called hard brexit?

Limp Biskit rocking the set, it's like Russian Roulette, when you're placing your bet

 

[r-u-s-x01]

I think that the EU is generally seen (rightly or wrongly) as a fairly left leaning institution. Over the last few years, most democracies have swung back towards the right.

That's why the EU will fail - it flew too close to the Sun. Had it stayed as the free trading enterprise it started as, everything would be just fine now. It's the irrelevant ones with their snouts in the trough like Juncker who are ruining it for the rest of us.

I agree eu is left wing. I also agree that over the last decade it has generally been moving to the right.

Hence I questioned the statement that the EU has moved to the hard left over the past decade because it is categorically incorrect


Edit to add scara quote

"think that the EU is generally seen (rightly or wrongly) as a fairly left leaning institution. Over the last few years, most democracies have swung back towards the right. "


He is most definitely not one of my lot and can see that member states have been moving towards the right,

 

[scaramanga]

@scaramanga how do you feel about so called hard brexit?

I think it's a terrible idea but one that May will never go for anyway.

My personal preference was for Cameron to realise what a strong hand he had and to have stayed in the EU with a far better deal than the slapdown they sent him home with.

 

[scaramanga]

I agree eu is left wing. I also agree that over the last decade it has generally been moving to the right.

Hence I questioned the statement that the EU has moved to the hard left over the past decade because it is categorically incorrect

I think the institution is making its way to the left and would end up a hard left institution.

The member states are not of that leaning and will hopefully ditch the Eurocrats

 

[r-u-s-x01]

We might disagree on the term hard left and the is no real way round that as iy is two people with different interpretations of a term.

But on the lib dems, they themselves describe themselves as a left wing party.

Where do lib Democrats say that they are left wing? And do they also say that they are on the extreme left?

Can you show me examples of eu countries moving further to the extreme left in the Last decade than they previously were as in my opinion they have been moving further right. Mainly reducing workers rights, moving to a more market driven economy etc.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think it's a terrible idea but one that May will never go for anyway.

My personal preference was for Cameron to realise what a strong hand he hand and to have stayed in the EU with a far better deal than the slapdown they sent him home with.

I think May would take a Cameron like outcome. And maybe she is trying to hard ball the EU on a "hard exit". But with a soft brexit, a la Norway, no one wins. Its like being in the EU without taking part in the decision making.

There is no "soft" Brexit, because soft brexit is to remain. What with Boris bluffing through Brexit (when he really favoured re-negotiated remain) and now May who has to be seen to be delivering, when she probably also favours a renegotiated remain, there is a danger that they'll all bluff themselves into full on right-wing Liam Fox insular Brexit. Because there is no other choice. Unless May can deliver a renegotiated EU deal and dress it up as Brexit. But that seems less likely now.

I don't think full Brexit represents people either. Most didn't really understand what they were voting for. And even now, no one knows what Brexit will look like (so how could anyone know what they were voting for?). It was a protest vote...that may lead to less jobs and years of economic challenges, before this country sorts out all its laws out, trade agreements and rises again.

You have this weird situation where most of the Sunderland Nissan factory workers voted to Leave, and now may lose their jobs. Had they understood that, their vote would have been different, no doubt! Do politicians now act in the best interests of the country, or on a slim referendum mandate?

 

[r-u-s-x01]

I think the institution is making its way to the left and would end up a hard left institution.

The member states are not of that leaning and will hopefully ditch the Eurocrats

Have they not put in rules to make public ownership or state sponsorship more or less illegal?

Don't think it is going hard left, perhaps getting a little more power to impose its will but not just leftwing ideals.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I agree eu is left wing. I also agree that over the last decade it has generally been moving to the right.

Hence I questioned the statement that the EU has moved to the hard left over the past decade because it is categorically incorrect

In your opinion.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Hungry voted 98% against accepting quotas of immigrants, to be far it was a small turn out, but I hope it does not lead to the rise of more extreme nazi parties like is starting to happen in Germany.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

In your opinion.

And also In fact, all the major economies have been moving towards free market and away from state control, they have been e labour lawsq etc. To say that European countries have been moving towards the extreme left over the last decade shows lack of historical awareness and the situation now.

Are European countries left wing, yes. Have they got more so over the past decade, no.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think it's a terrible idea but one that May will never go for anyway.

My personal preference was for Cameron to realise what a strong hand he had and to have stayed in the EU with a far better deal than the slapdown they sent him home with.

I'm not so sure May will never go for Hard Brexit. She's certainly talking a strong exit game:

“Let’s ignore the pessimists, let’s have the confidence in ourselves to go out into the world, securing trade deals, winning contracts, generating wealth and creating jobs. Let’s show the country we mean business.”

Moreover, what choice does she have? You either leave the EU, or have to play by its rules, in which case its not Brexit. What will the implications be? Some tariffs and regulations on trade with the EU - so companies in the EU will have an advantage over UK companies selling into the EU. Less competition for jobs with less immigration from Eastern and Western Europe. Who knows what will occur with the financial services and car firms. I don't think things will change over night, but over years, companies will look to invest in facilities within the trading block is my guess; and we'll see a gradual decline in London's dominance as Europe's financial hub. Car firms will not close straight away, but when new factories or new car models are required, we could see them being built in Spain, Poland etc.

What will we get in return? We'll trade with Russia and other marginal countries. We'll be a safe haven for money. A bit like Zurich. We'll end up keeping most of the EU laws and realise that having sovereignty to make our own laws doesn't do anyone many favours. We'll seek to get cosy with China and the US - who will look at us and think they are a country on the periphery. Scotland will look to devolve.

Are their any actual benefits? Cheaper fish? We can buy produce from any country we chose. Two benefits is all I've got right now. Struggling with this Brisket brick. Seems like a waste of government energy and if there is a benefit to trade, it may take years to see it.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Where do lib Democrats say that they are left wing? And do they also say that they are on the extreme left?

Can you show me examples of eu countries moving further to the extreme left in the Last decade than they previously were as in my opinion they have been moving further right. Mainly reducing workers rights, moving to a more market driven economy etc.

Wow you really want examples of the lib dems being left wing really? I can not be bothered to post links for someone so naive and clueless about British politics. I have heard many of them say it, I have heard Paddy Ashdown talk about how the lib dems and the rest of the left have to control the tories, Clegg was always going on when the coalition were in operation how having the lib dems in there was good because the left had a say in government and gave balance to the tories, I actually agreed with him on that. Not everything about the left is bad, mainly just their economic policies.

I am a guy chatting on a football forum, you want examples of how the EU countries have moved to the left I can only assume you have had no dealings with them, the red tape which is a trait of left wing politics in itself, the extension of maternity leave, the draconian anti business "eco" rules they have instigated. I do have some experience of this, it is not great I am not a captain of industry but I have had to have dealing in exports.

If you really want to look at how left wing the EU is and some of the countries of it are is to look to Greece as a case study, the complete lack of reform of the pension age in mainland European countries is a ticking time bomb and one I expect they will try and make us pay for even after we leave.

To be honest if you think countries like France, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Greece have moved to the right, then we are so far apart on opinions that the is no point carrying on the dissucsion and I will leave it so as not to monopolize the thread and allow others to debate.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

And also In fact, all the major economies have been moving towards free market and away from state control, they have been e labour lawsq etc. To say that European countries have been moving towards the extreme left over the last decade shows lack of historical awareness and the situation now.

Are European countries left wing, yes. Have they got more so over the past decade, no.

In your opinion.

Mine is different as I said in another post I can not debate with someone with such a difference of opinion as it would turn this thread into a back and forth between me(someone who knows what he is talking about) and you(someone so driven by political partisan views you can not see what is happening in Europe. Good evening to you Sir.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

Wow you really want examples of the lib dems being left wing really? I can not be bothered to post links for someone so naive and clueless about British politics. I have heard many of them say it, I have heard Paddy Ashdown talk about how the lib dems and the rest of the left have to control the tories, Clegg was always going on when the coalition were in operation how having the lib dems in there was good because the left had a say in government and gave balance to the tories, I actually agreed with him on that. Not everything about the left is bad, mainly just their economic policies.

I am a guy chatting on a football forum, you want examples of how the EU countries have moved to the left I can only assume you have had no dealings with them, the red tape which is a trait of left wing politics in itself, the extension of maternity leave, the draconian anti business "eco" rules they have instigated. I do have some experience of this, it is not great I am not a captain of industry but I have had to have dealing in exports.

If you really want to look at how left wing the EU is and some of the countries of it are is to look to Greece as a case study, the complete lack of reform of the pension age in mainland European countries is a ticking time bomb and one I expect they will try and make us pay for even after we leave.

To be honest if you think countries like France, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Greece have moved to the right, then we are so far apart on opinions that the is no point carrying on the dissucsion and I will leave it so as not to monopolize the thread and allow others to debate.

Lib dems are centre some things left, some things right. They are left of tory but are centre.

Europe is left wing but over the past 20 years or so the major economies have been moving towards market economic and away from state control. Over the last decade they have not been moving towards the extreme left, this was your statement and it is incorrect. Even Portugal Spain and Italy have been moving towards the right in the past 10 years.

Give you a clue just because you don't like something doesn't make it left wing. And extreme left wing tends to mean moving things into state hands, the opposite to what has been happening.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Lib dems are centre some things left, some things right. They are left of tory but are centre.

Europe is left wing but over the past 20 years or so the major economies have been moving towards market economic and away from state control. Over the last decade they have not been moving towards the extreme left, this was your statement and it is incorrect. Even Portugal Spain and Italy have been moving towards the right in the past 10 years.

Give you a clue just because you don't like something doesn't make it left wing. And extreme left wing tends to mean moving things into state hands, the opposite to what has been happening.

Thank GHod the German state does not subsidize their railways and they buy up franchises in Britain to make more profit for the German state railways, same with French energy companies. I can not talk and discuss things with people who are so wrong, I am putting you on ignore, as I said once before in a previous post please stop responding to my posts, without being to rude I find you to stupid to waste my time on.

I am now going to play poker for an hour, it might say I am still online but that is because I can not log out of this website from this laptop. I will not be responding to you again.

The is no point responding to my posts as I will not respond on here again to you, I do not want to say what I think of your views, we clearly share a difference of opinion and I do not wish to ruin a good thread or bring problems to the website, please stop replying to my posts and despite the general behaviour of people of your political lot show some maturity and move on.

Kind regards, ben.

Good night.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

Thank GHod the German state does not subsidize their railways and they buy up franchises in Britain to make more profit for the German state railways, same with French energy companies. I can not talk and discuss things with people who are so wrong, I am putting you on ignore, as I said once before in a previous post please stop responding to my posts, without being to rude I find you to stupid to waste my time on.

I am now going to play poker for an hour, it might say I am still online but that is because I can not log out of this website from this laptop. I will not be responding to you again.

The is no point responding to my posts as I will not respond on here again to you, I do not want to say what I think of your views, we clearly share a difference of opinion and I do not wish to ruin a good thread or bring problems to the website, please stop replying to my posts and despite the general behaviour of people of your political lot show some maturity and move on.

Kind regards, ben.

Good night.

And obviously this state controlled company was set up in the last decade since before then Germany and France were a bastion of market economics before their huge shift left, sorry extreme left.

Ben, you made an outrageous statement saying that European countries have moved to the extreme left over the last decade, this has not happened to the major European economies.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not so sure May will never go for Hard Brexit. She's certainly talking a strong exit game:

“Let’s ignore the pessimists, let’s have the confidence in ourselves to go out into the world, securing trade deals, winning contracts, generating wealth and creating jobs. Let’s show the country we mean business.”

Moreover, what choice does she have? You either leave the EU, or have to play by its rules, in which case its not Brexit. What will the implications be? Some tariffs and regulations on trade with the EU - so companies in the EU will have an advantage over UK companies selling into the EU. Less competition for jobs with less immigration from Eastern and Western Europe. Who knows what will occur with the financial services and car firms. I don't think things will change over night, but over years, companies will look to invest in facilities within the trading block is my guess; and we'll see a gradual decline in London's dominance as Europe's financial hub. Car firms will not close straight away, but when new factories or new car models are required, we could see them being built in Spain, Poland etc.

What will we get in return? We'll trade with Russia and other marginal countries. We'll be a safe haven for money. A bit like Zurich. We'll end up keeping most of the EU laws and realise that having sovereignty to make our own laws doesn't do anyone many favours. We'll seek to get cosy with China and the US - who will look at us and think they are a country on the periphery. Scotland will look to devolve.

Are their any actual benefits? Cheaper fish? We can buy produce from any country we chose. Two benefits is all I've got right now. Struggling with this Brisket brick. Seems like a waste of government energy and if there is a benefit to trade, it may take years to see it.

That quote says nothing about our relationship with Europe and only mentions our relationship with the rest of the world.

Any kind of brexit will result in us making our own trade deals with the rest of the world.

 

[StephenH]

I'm turning into liker of this current more centres government.

What's happening to me @scaramanga

 

[scaramanga]

I'm turning into liker of this current more centres government.

What's happening to me @scaramanga

By the look of the bolded bit, I'd say you're having a stroke.

 

[monkeybarry]

Hungry voted 98% against accepting quotas of immigrants, to be far it was a small turn out, but I hope it does not lead to the rise of more extreme nazi parties like is starting to happen in Germany.

It's essentially appx 40% of Hungarians saying no to people in need and 55% not caring either way.